Well, I guess we can just talk about the game in here.

Currently listening to: The Dead Schembechlers.

Predictions and scores anybody?

Thanks for starting the OGT The Mailman!

GLENN YOU SON OF A BITCH!!

GLENN YOU SON OF A BITCH!!


Trap game.

28-24.

28-24.

Are you place any conditions on that pick?

In other words, do certain units from a certain team need to be present?

...IF Michigan's defense shows up and holds Wells under 200 yards that is.

37-14 bad guys.

Itallics because Llllyodd's hand is shaky.

To be honest, I think OSU wins.

I think both teams are flawed (duh?), but OSU is clearly a better team this year, especially without a 100% Henne and Hart.

OSU by 14, 31-17.

I think OSU wins too. 28-24 prediction still stands though.

The Tressel losing consecutive games is preposterous.

Currently waiting for: Wil Ledezma to make his pick.

College Gameday will be in AA on Saturday...


I like Michigan in a VERY close game. I think Ohio State will be on letdown after their heart breaker...


Michigan 24
Ohio State 21

What's the status on Chris Wells? I know he was a bit hobbled during the Illinois game...

I think most of the Michigan fans here are going to pick OSU to win this game. What's bukdow going to use for ammo now? That's all I'm concerned about.

Well, I'm going to go take a little nap. Checking back and seeing what everyone thinks (looking forward to Zip's pick the most) is going to be interesting.

Hopefully I wake up with my penis...

Hopefully I wake up with my penis...


That would be quite frightening to wake up without it...in my opinion.

I voted for OSU. I don't have a score prediction until I hear injury reports though.

I voted for OSU. I don't have a score prediction until I hear injury reports though.

Injury reports? Michigan makes the KGB look like the National Enquirer.

I picked UofM just cuz I can't bring myself to think that I might know that its possible to even think that they could beat us.

BTW...if the impossible happens, which Bowl games would we be in the running for?

walmart just had its first 100 bln dollar quarter. the country picks UM!

final score: 105-87 michigan, if the defense shows up.

gotta get one for the gipper.

ps is hart going to be near 100%?

I would think Hart would be close to 90-95%, he will have had 2 weeks of full rest by the time the game comes around, and I can only imagine how bad he wants to win this one.

College Gameday will be in AA on Saturday...


I like Michigan in a VERY close game. I think Ohio State will be on letdown after their heart breaker...


Michigan 24
Ohio State 21

What's the status on Chris Wells? I know he was a bit hobbled during the Illinois game...

Show me one time you picked Michigan to lose and I'll respect your prediction.

If not 28-24 OSU I'm gonna go 21-17 OSU.

UofM 27 TCT less than that.

Homer pick? Prolly.

Jim Tressel is going to be out for blood following that loss to Illinois. He will look to crush UoM to reestabilish his position as overlord of the Big 10. Despite my hatred for the feral Wolverines, I hate Ohio State even more.

21-14 UM breaks the Tressel spell and Hart finally runs the ball.

I would think Hart would be close to 90-95%, he will have had 2 weeks of full rest by the time the game comes around, and I can only imagine how bad he wants to win this one.

I'd say 75%. I mean he took a week off and then couldn't finish the following week vs Illinois?

Henne will be closer to 100 then Hart but not much. These 2 need about a month, imo, to be healthy.

I'd say 75%. I mean he took a week off and then couldn't finish the following week vs Illinois?

Henne will be closer to 100 then Hart but not much. These 2 need about a month, imo, to be healthy.


I would think Hart would be healthier than Henne...otherwise no way would Lloyd have played Henne for two series's Vs. Wisconsin if he intended to throw the game from the beginning...

Show me one time you picked Michigan to lose and I'll respect your prediction.


Duke will beat Notre Dame this week...

Dude, bullshit. Notre Dame NEVER loses to Duke.

I'll pick michigan to win. I think michigan has more to play for and that henne and hart will provide the leadership that was noticably absent during the wisconsin game. The key matchups will be the wells duo vs. michigan lb's and henne and co. vs. osu pass defense. osu really hasn't played a good passing team all year. (Purdue doesn't count.) Beckman (sp?) reminds me of john navarre: very accurate if comfortable, seems to get rattled with pressure, isn't much of a scrambler. Thus, I think the osu running attack will have to dominate the game early to open things up for the osu passing attack. Hopefully, michigan spent extra time preparing for osu since it didn't look like they had much of a game plan for wisconsin. if osu wins, it will put the final nail in the coffin of tressel over carr (the casket is already shut with multiple nails in place). it would be great if michigan could get one last big win for carr.

michigan 23
osu 22

Dude, bullshit. Notre Dame NEVER loses to Duke.


They never lose to Air Force or Navy either...

I know, ahahahahaha.

I picked UofM just cuz I can't bring myself to think that I might know that its possible to even think that they could beat us.

[smilie=thinking2.g: I was thinking the same thing.

Excuse me Tahoe, but did you refer to Michigan as "us"?

Less than 24 hrs, boys.

Less than 24 hrs, boys.

and Ohio State fans.


ficksed

I can honestly admit that this game gives me chills. Not fear, but the magnitudenesses of it all.

Go Blue!

I went to The Game in 2005. The atmosphere was a little sudued because UM sucked that year, but it was still almost overwhelming.
We parked on Browne St (I think) at a house where about 387 guys were living and partied the right way. Grilled burgers, dogs, and plenty of Beer.
The game was pretty good, but of course, OSU pulled it out in the last minute.
Best thing I've ever done, and I shan't go back, in all likelihood. Milling around with 111,000 people, and trying to drive out of there sucked ass. But I'll never forget going to The Game at least once in my life.

Well at least it was an OSU UofM game. When I was in Chicago I fought the crowds for a fucking 4th of July fireworks show. I think there were about a half million peeps down there. We went down with about 20 of us and once we got off the el, never say any of them cept my brother.

CROWDS SUCK!

Go Blue!

the struggle for helm's deep is over, th battle for middle earth has just begun

http://www.doomlabs.com/projects/cannons/gandalfs_staff/doom_gandalf_mxs_tt_.jpg

Go Blue!

I have to set my alarm for 8am or so.

Can we borrow Dantonio's clock?

I'm
trying
to
post
posts
so
that
BDids
pic
wont
be
on
the
front
page
tomorrow
morning

Anyone else not able to sleep?

Anyone else not able to sleep?

Yeah, I can't sleep a wink right now, but I did sleep for ten hours last night.

I won't have a problem sleeping tonight. Usually I fall asleep pretty quickly after crying hysterically.

I need to find my Final Countdown video.

Oh, how I hate...

Come on D, get off the field

Go for it Tressel, you bad ass its only 4th and 28

I realize that OSU's pass D is their weakness, but I didn't expect Carr to pass this much. Surprising and I likes it.

Whats with the Mike Martz like play calling in the red zone? Come on DeBord...

ugh...why not give the ball to the guy who got you down into the red zone in the firstplace???

3-0

Ahh, the old DeBord secret "3rd and twelve 5 yard pass". We'll get them yet...

As soon as I posted on how Carr was passing the ball, he stopped going long. Now on 1st and 20, we're running the ball. Swell and by swell I mean not swell.

How is the game going? Whats the score? I am stuck at work getting ready for an audit.

Better than I thought so far.

7-3 OSU, 3 mins until the half.

Glen, could you let TMM out of the box so he can post?

We might get 3 out of this cuz of that punt

We might get 3 out of this cuz of that punt

"We"?, lol

Better than I thought so far.

7-3 OSU, 3 mins until the half.
On which side does the momentum lie?

"We"?, lol
Its the WMW vivarious way.

There is NO COACH that hates being interviewed more than LC.

god this game has been a bore...

On which side does the momentum lie?


nobody's...everything is so flat

piss poor tackling, terrible offensive play selection...

michigan's not gonna win this game

bring on the outback bowl...

Really fun to watch Lloyd Carr happily go down with his ship, even though Chad Henne clearly can't throw for shit.

He knows he isn't going to coach again, so he's going to let his boy Henne throw noodle-armed 5 yard passes. He'd rather let henne finish his last game than give his team a chance to win.

If I was on the defense, It'd be hard not to quit. The coaches have given up on the team, why why shouldnt the team give up on the coaches?

very inspiring to watch Henne come back after every 3 and out missing guys by 5 yards. This is certainly worth sending him back in there.

That didn't look good for Wells. Hammy

Awful game.

OSU is about to close this out soon, methinks.

Hard to beat OSU with garbage at QB and players falling down all over the field.

Awesome to see Henne huste out of the locker room so he could ruin another drive. What determination.

And boo Lloyd for allowing him back in the game.

I almost wish OSU would have went up earlier in the game. We could have had that sense of urgency we needed earlier.

The 'review' didn't hurt us cuz of the yardage, but cuz Henne came back in. IMO, Tex was the better guy at the time.

Henne is courageous as fuck. Only he and maybe willis reed could have thrown a ball in the dirt with suck heroism.

This is our last reasonable chance to win this game.

Henne with his 85th 3 and out of the game.

The only 1st down michigan got without benefit of a penalty in the 2nd half was with Mallet on the field, but don't tell Lloyd...Henne wants to play hero.

Wow, i never thought i would see an offense this bad. i hope this means the end of debord forever in any capacity.

also, schilling is the worst offensive lineman i have ever seen at michigan. though debord is just as dumb for not double teaming.

Our D is making them beat us in the air.

Good riddance.

Reflection of Lloyd that this is the best his team could do in his last game.

Nice guy, but not a good coach since 1998.

I'm sure everyone will hug him in the locker room. That means a whole lot on the scoreboard.

Herbstreet said Lloyd came to create relationships??? WTF, I want a coach that wins football games. 5 B10s in 13 years is barely average.

Thanks Lloyd, but now ride off into the sunset.

In the 'what if' department. I wish we would've had a healthy qb and rb or let Tex qb in the 2nd half. Oh well, didn't happen.

OSU has our #

Herbstreit does a good job of hiding his homerism for OSU, and that's why I like him. Truly a humble man, letting actions speak for him. Sort've like one Mr. James Patrick Tressel.

Did Glenn let you out of the box finally?

I was watching with my Michigan Wolverine hanger onner family, though they are second to my true family, the fellas here at WTFDetroit.

Good for you

Good for me? Great for me. Now that I've been taking anger management classes, I was able to watch a game and take a loss well for the first time.

worst offensive performance i've ever seen michigan have...even worse than the Oregon game...

defense did a good job I thought...

Whatever, it was a fitting ending for what was an awful season...

get ready for Les...

Tressel went all Michigan and they knew they were just going to hand off. I think Boeckman only threw like 10 or so passes, gonna have to look that up.

What a horrible game. It looked like the cold weather froze Michigan's offense to a standstill, with ~100 yds passing and rushing combined. This weather didn't help Henne's shoulder much, and shouldn't have been in the game. "Hartless wonder" couldn't run or find a hole to save his life; and failed to achieve what he came back for, to win against OSU. Now with the old guard gone perhaps Les Miles will work his magic on your fumbling QB Mallet.

Mallett didn't fumble once when he was in. Eat it, Balkan.

Well, I'll not get those three hours back.
I can now look forward to the end of Martial Law. I can now look forward to Michigan football being fun again.
It is finally going to be fun to be a fan of Michigan football again.
Henne should have been SAT THE FUCK DOWN. He really hurt the team. Mallett should have been let in there. Truly Henne's shoulder is seriously injured. A REAL coach would have made that call.
And so long to the gutless Manningham. Good luck in the professional ranks, where your tendency to look around to make sure you aren't going to be hit will ensure a career of clipboard holding. But hey, it pays well, and you'll get some babes!

Seriously, it feels good to not live and die with this team for once. I feel marvelous.

http://www.filmsondisc.com/images/scarface.jpg

Mallett didn't fumble once when he was in. Eat it, Balkan.

Whose going to the Rose Bowl Mailman? Not you.

I'm scared of flying anyway.

Whose going to the Rose Bowl Mailman? Not you.

Balkan:
Michigan 28 Michigan State 24...six in a row...And now, say goodbye to Lloyd.

Whose going to the Rose Bowl Mailman? Not you.

And neither are you. You picked UM to win after all.

Sonned.

Whose going to the Rose Bowl Mailman? Not you.


the Spartans?

Goodbye Lloyd, thank you for your contribution. Hello Mr. Mallet, could you sign this football for my friend Zip....damn...another fumble. Oh as for six in a row, that streaks ends next year.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. (or is it before you fuck them? Sicko)

I think Henne's shoulder is needing some serious attention too zip. No excuses just the truth. I'm not saying we would have won if he was 100% either.

We failed early on to score when we had some chances. I don't OSU got in the groove till late second or early 3rd.

Henne > OSU QB when healthy
Hart > Wells when healthy
UofM's WRs > OSU's

But we lost. I wish we were healthy on offense to see if OSU's D really is that good.

the Spartans?

Nah, roses are not blooming for them yet, I'm thinking Hawaii or Insight.

UofM's WRs > OSU's


That one went right over my head...

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. (or is it before you fuck them? Sicko)

That was your thought mailman, not mind. Keep your thoughts of animal cruelty to yourself.

To the mods: don't put this in the dumpster. Just havin' some fun with my little bro.

http://www.jokemonkey.com/pictures/wedgie.jpg

Not to be, BUT
With a healthy Henne and a helathy Hart, Michigan would have...found a way to lose anyway.
It is clear that Lloyd is Tressel's bitch.
As for the statement that "the streak ends next year", how can I argue with such igorance? 30 out of 40 and Sparties think they can talk shit!
Oh well, they can always live vicariously through Tressel, especially since they are his bitch too!

That one went right over my head...

Yeah. UM's receivers failed on the Big Stage big time. Not sure right now any Michigan fan needs to compare talent, heart, or coaching.
I mean fuck, this wasn't Michigan State that the Wimperines were playing!

That was your thought mailman, not mind.

You're right, rapists usually don't take into account the emotions of their victims.

michigan sucked today, but they've been to the rose bowl but they've gone 8 times since msu last went 20 years ago. I really don't remember the last time msu was even close.

Yeah. UM's receivers failed on the Big Stage big time. Not sure right now any Michigan fan needs to compare talent, heart, or coaching.
I mean fuck, this wasn't Michigan State that the Wimperines were playing!

You got the joke, right?

They had drops today, but our WRs are better than their, imo.

Yeah, maybe, but those were crucial drops.

You got the joke, right?

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper87/stills/31yy9946.jpg

Awesome.

They had drops today, but our WRs are better than their, imo.

Ohio State has beaten Michigan six out of seven, but goddammit! Michigan is better!

Yeah, I would say Michigan really dropped the ball today.

At the end of the day, if you can't take a joke to make yourself feel better, you can always just laugh at Balkan.

Ohio State has beaten Michigan six out of seven, but goddammit! Michigan is better!

Better what?

Because I pointed out an area where I feel we are better than them, you think I'm saying we should have beat them? Theres more to a final score of a football game the talent on the field zip.

Well, it all depends on what you're basing it off.

I appreciate the point, Tahoe, but it is incredibly irrelevent. OSU players did NOT drop the ball when they were thrown to. Manningham has shown a tendency to do this throughout his career. If he is in traffic, his arms grow suddenly short.
The real dissapointment is that Henne was injured, but aside from that, Lloyd is supposed to be The Coach, and should have played Mallett. I'm thinking Mallett is going to blossom under a new system and coaching staff in ways that the poor unfortunate Henne did not under this group of quacks.
God, the Iron Wall is going to come down and Michigan Football can breathe again!

My point is that IF we are more talented then we are OBVIOUSLY lacking in the other areas that go into the final score of the game. Coaching, health, etc.

And a side note: When the fuck did le Casa Grande become and easy place to win? 3 fucking points at home. 7 against the Quacks? Fucking incredible. We've slipped and it aint the talent.

Of all big time college stadiums, the so called Big house might have the least home advantage, especially with guys named Lloyd Carr coaching the home team. I have never been in such a quiet place in my life. You'd think that with 111,000 people there, you wouldn't be able to hear a thing. But actually, it's quite cozy in there, and with all the Blue Hairs who populate the uM crowd, and the rest of the fucks who act as if they need to hear a pin drop, there is very little added edge. You can seriously take a nap during major stretches of the game, even when they play a big team.

^ Agreed. Plus Michigan fans are way too nonchalant about the whole rivalry, whereas OSU fans HATE Michigan and Michigan fans.

By the way if Michigan doesn't get a rematch THIS YEAR I will be INFURIATED!!!1

no not really

Those drops were killers. Mario had 3 terrible ones that were basically easy catches. Henne wasn't exactly crisp, but come on. Our OL got mauled too. Whoever the RT we have is terrible. I didn't see one play were he totally contained the DE. With Long leaving, I fear a huge dropoff at OT. We better have a great LT coming in. Hart had no room to run either. A couple times on one drive he had holes, otherwise his first 1-2 moves were behind the line of scrimmage. Basically this game boils down to our OL and DL getting man handled.

I can't wait to get run over by Texas in the Alamo Bowl. What a way to send the seniors out, 3 home losses and another bowl defeat.

Alamo Bowl? You're saying no Capital One Bowl? GOD DAMNIT!!

I taped that pos game and I'm going to go back and watch when Henne came back out on the field (after his shot) and just headed into the huddle. Then LC ran in there...and did nothing.

I still wonder wtf that was all about.

That was about Mallett knowing that next year the hand cuffs come off.

So assuming Les Miles is the next coach, let me ax you dis: what exactly is his philosophy? Aside from catching the end of LSU games I haven't seen them play.

That is an interesting question. I DO have a feeling it is to utilize his talent. I believe he attacks the field, using many formations and looks. He is far less predictable than Lloyd.
He is BIG on speed, and attacks the field vertically. His players play with passion, and seem to always be fired up. Lloyd's Michigan teams have all the emotion of a morgue (except Hart).
If Miles is gonna be the coach, I expect Michigan football to be at least 72% better than it is now.

I'm going to start a rumor on the internets, all of them, that June Jones is going to coach MY team, THE UofM Wolverines.

Better hope there'd be no Manningham with June Jones at the helm.

I'm going to start a rumor on the internets that John L. Smith has been hired to coach MY team, UofM.

I still stand by my Tom Izzo prediction.

Here's a retarded question (which I'm entitled to, given that there is a certain retarded poster in these parts whose name starts with a "B"): is Carr coaching the bowl game or not?

I would expect him to, cuz his sucksessor won't be named by then, cuz the sucksessor will prolly be coaching his own team and he might not resign till after the bowl game WE play in.

I'm going to go hang out with bukdow under the green and white tent, where I will NOT leave my drink out while I go take a leak.

:emo kid:

BTW, 3,596 to 3,576

BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYITCH!!!!!!

http://www.mikestents.com/green%20and%20white%20medium.gif

Reflection of Lloyd that this is the best his team could do in his last game.

Nice guy, but not a good coach since 1998.

I'm sure everyone will hug him in the locker room. That means a whole lot on the scoreboard.

oh, i completely agree. it was definitly lloyd's fault that manningham left his worst game of the year for OSU, that henne still struggled with his shoulder, that hart still struggled with his ankle. i mean honestly, its not like hes been protecting them for the second half of the season.

damnit.

it is so easy to second guess when your team loses. we stuck close to a pretty good OSU team when we were pretty seriously dinged up. im sure a whole lot of fucking idiots, like you for example, are going to say 'oh, lloyd loses again', but this one wasnt on lloyd.

im devestated that lloyd, hart, and henne will be going out like this. but i also see bright days ahead for the wolverines.

this one is going to be tough to get over, though.

I'm already over it, having been invited to the green and white tent.

it is so easy to second guess when your team loses.

Agree. Thats what I was saying earlier too.

Ohio State has beaten Michigan six out of seven, but goddammit! Michigan is better!


anyone who thinks that michigan's athletic program is near on par with osu's is an idiot. so does that give lloyd a pass (hmmmmmm???).

osu spends way more money, have lower standards, and have been getting in bed with the maurice clarrett's of the world while staying unscathed (for now).

you have to give The ohio state university credit, right now they are clearly the second best program, overall, in the country.

I appreciate the point, Tahoe, but it is incredibly irrelevent. OSU players did NOT drop the ball when they were thrown to. Manningham has shown a tendency to do this throughout his career. If he is in traffic, his arms grow suddenly short.
The real dissapointment is that Henne was injured, but aside from that, Lloyd is supposed to be The Coach, and should have played Mallett. I'm thinking Mallett is going to blossom under a new system and coaching staff in ways that the poor unfortunate Henne did not under this group of quacks.
God, the Iron Wall is going to come down and Michigan Football can breathe again!

well, your completely, COMPLETELY wrong. henne has shown enough guts this season to earn the benefit of the doubt. and mallett has shown enough butter fingers to dismiss him as a worthwhile alternative. its been henne or bust almost the entire season. i knew when henne went into the lockerroom he was just going for cortizone and would be out asap. i love big tex's future, but today was henne's. it just didnt work out.

That is an interesting question. I DO have a feeling it is to utilize his talent. I believe he attacks the field, using many formations and looks. He is far less predictable than Lloyd.
He is BIG on speed, and attacks the field vertically. His players play with passion, and seem to always be fired up. Lloyd's Michigan teams have all the emotion of a morgue (except Hart).
If Miles is gonna be the coach, I expect Michigan football to be at least 72% better than it is now.

i dont know, i thought lloyd was almost too aggressive. lots of vertical passing. would have been good to have some underneeth stuff to get henne/ manningham going. i do have high hopes for UM and miles though.

1-7 is unforgiveable. sorry lloyd, im your biggest fan but the writing is on the wall.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/stewart_mandel/07/06/miles.usc/t1_miles1_si.jpg

diddy:
Do you watch the games? Do you get sloshed before every post? Do you REALLY think Ohio State is dirty just cuz they're better than Michigan?

I think the most infuriating thing is the lack of adjustments. Did carr or debord even consider rolling henne away from gholston. schilling was an embarassment out there, but how about some original ideas. Also, the no huddle seemed to be working pretty well for the one series michigan actually moved the ball, but they never went back to it.

Would now be a good time for that moment of silence?

God, the Iron Wall is going to come down and Michigan Football can breathe again!

One morning in june some twenty years ago
I was born a rich man’s son
I had everything that money could buy
But freedom - I had none

I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
I’ve been lookin’ so long
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Still the search goes on
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Since I left my home town
I’ve been lookin’ for freedom
Still it can’t be found

I headed down the track, my baggage on my back
I left the city far behind
Walkin’ down the road, with my heavy load
Tryin’ to find some peace of mind
Father said you’ll be sorry, son,
If you leave your home this way
And when you realize the freedom money buys
You’ll come running home some day

I paid a lotta dues, had plenty to lose
Travelling across the land
Worked on a farm, got some muscle in my arm
But still I’m not a self-made man
I’ll be on the run for many years to come
I’ll be searching door to door
But, given some time, some day I’m gonna find
The freedom I’ve been searchin’ for

I'm already over it, having been invited to the green and white tent.

I am somewhat bothered that I am not allowed under that tent, seeing that I picked MSU to win this week and I have exactly one half of the MSU degrees that bukdow does.

I want in the tent.

Can you sneak me in the caterer's flap when no one is looking, Mailman?

Sure Glenn. Just keep your ass crack from sweating.

Wojo


Crushing end for Carr, Wolverines

ANN ARBOR -- The rain kept dribbling and the Buckeyes kept rolling, and as the final seconds ticked away and the Ohio State fans chanted louder and louder, Lloyd Carr looked grimly to the clock, then to the field, then to the clock.

There was no stopping it now, not the outcome, not the misery, not the bitterest end imaginable. For Michigan and the seniors who returned for this game, and for the head coach who has stood unflinchingly on the sideline for 13 years, this hit in the deepest part of the gut.

That's also where the Buckeyes slugged them, again and again. This was a pounding 14-3 triumph, Ohio State's sixth in seven games against Michigan under Jim Tressel, and even as the Buckeye players celebrated, somberness hung heavily in the cold, damp air.

Carr was stoic, declining to discuss his expected retirement, but it certainly felt as if more was ending than simply a quest for a Big Ten title. I've believed for a while this would be Carr's last game in Michigan Stadium and nothing that happened Saturday changed that opinion.

Carr was calm and not overly emotional afterward, and again declined to make himself the issue, even as the issue becomes inescapable.

"It really doesn't matter about me personally," he said. "It's about our team. And it's disappointing."

This had to be horrifically disappointing for the Wolverines, for so many reasons. Ohio State (11-1) won its second straight outright conference championship and might even climb back into national-title contention. Michigan (8-4) will settle for a smaller bowl and bigger questions, and face pending change.

Outside in the unrelenting drizzle, athletic director Bill Martin made it clear any decision was entirely up to the coach.

"He'll retire when Lloyd decides to retire," Martin said. "Lloyd and I have talked about his future for the last six years, and we established a pattern we follow to this day. He'll make the call."

It's a painful call and it should come soon. There's a 10 a.m. news conference Monday, when Carr is expected to announce his retirement. It can't be any more painful than what the Wolverines experienced on this day.

The Buckeyes were tougher on both sides of the ball, and that has to change. Their powerful back, Chris Wells, rushed for 222 yards. Michigan's acclaimed counterpart, Mike Hart, was slowed by his sprained right ankle and Ohio State's outstanding defense, and finished with 44 yards.

Quarterback Chad Henne clearly was hampered by his ailing right shoulder but it didn't really matter because Michigan's receivers -- especially an inexplicably shaky Mario Manningham -- couldn't hang onto the ball. The Wolverines' defense battled admirably but it too was outmatched, and Tressel used most of the second half to essentially kill the clock, calling only two pass plays.

He could do that because Ohio State's defense was terrific, and the result was yet another scarlet victory dance on the final gray day. It didn't help that one of the Buckeyes' stars was defensive end Vernon Gholston from Detroit, who helped punish Michigan's offense in ways we've never seen.

The Wolverines' total yardage (91) represented the first time they were held below 100 since 1962. I'm not even being funny when I say punter Zoltan Mesko was their best player. He was forced into action 12 times, once more than Ohio State punter A.J. Trapasso.

This was vintage Michigan-Ohio State, and not in a good way. It was conservative and sloppy, although the weather had something to do with it.

"We didn't get anything done -- it's on us," center Adam Kraus said. "Our defense played great and we hung them out to dry. I think the focus was there, we just made too many mistakes, too many penalties, and didn't protect the passer."

Players said speculation about Carr's status didn't affect them, and it certainly didn't affect them as much as the presence of Buckeyes in their backfield. Henne was sacked three times and completed only 11 of 34 passes, and even departed for the dressing room at one point to get his shoulder worked on.

This was a patchwork team at the end of a patchwork season, although no one was lobbing the injury excuse. But for about a month-and-a-half, Henne and Hart have barely practiced and were always game-time decisions.

Henne, Hart and offensive tackle Jake Long came back to win a title, and now, after the 0-2 start and the Appalachian State disaster and two straight losses to end the regular season, all that's left is a bowl game, and the stinging memory of an 0-4 record against Ohio State.

The Buckeyes' four-game winning streak in the rivalry is their longest since 1960-63. Tressel's 6-1 hammerlock on the series is startling.

None of that is lost on Carr, but it's also not a factor in his retirement plans. This would be a brutal way to go out, on another wet, gray day, as seniors departed without ever beating the Buckeyes.

"Any time the prize is as big as it was, the disappointment is just as great," Carr said. "When you play hard in the last game against your greatest rival and come up short, it's difficult. But that's the way it is."

There was a somber finality to his tone, at the end of the bitterest day. A great opportunity was lost, probably the last.

Anybody want to try and analyze how much $ coming back cost Long, Henne & Hart?

Long will go higher this year than he would have last year, so he might make that $ back, but the other two may have cost themselves a lot of cash, especially Henne.

i sure wish lloyd would have included as many fireworks in the game plan as boy genius tressel did. clearly, the secret to winning is freestyling and wide open offenses, as displayed by jim tressell's play calling yesterday, which was the complete opposite of vanilla.

i think henne is still a late first round pick, not sure where he would have gone last year. hart has always had durability concerns but maybe they increased this year, (though so did his otherwise value, imo). still goes 2nd to 3rd rnd.

Henne and Hart are both 2nd rd picks IMO...I think Manningham played himself out of coming out of school early yesterday...

Crable is a 2nd or 3rd rounder, as is Jamar Adams

Jake Long is obviously top 5

2nd day picks (4th-7th rd)- Adam Kraus, Chris Graham, and maybe somebody could take a late flyer on Brandent Englemon...

i think henne is still a late first round pick, not sure where he would have gone last year. hart has always had durability concerns but maybe they increased this year, (though so did his otherwise value, imo). still goes 2nd to 3rd rnd.

So, at minimum, they lost one year of salary at those levels, and a year off their pro careers.

An admirable sacrifice, no doubt, but was it smart?

So, at minimum, they lost one year of salary at those levels, and a year off their pro careers.

An admirable sacrifice, no doubt, but was it smart?
I would say Long showed he is indeed a top 5 pick. Henne probably moved himself down to the 4th or 5th round and Hart showed he doesn`t belong in the NFL. He is too small, injury prone and would be a difficult team mate. He talks as much shit as Owens and Johnson, yet does not have the ability to match 1/20 of their production. He may get picked up as a free agent, but he won`t stick.

wrong again, bucky.

wrong again, bucky.
What doyou think I am wrong about?

What doyou think I am wrong about?


We'd need another database to hold a list that long.

So, at minimum, they lost one year of salary at those levels, and a year off their pro careers.

An admirable sacrifice, no doubt, but was it smart?

You're saying one can put a price tag on playing for THE Univeristy of Michigan?

wrong again, bucky.
How about this, b-diddy. You predict where you think the three will go in the draft and the loser leaves the board for a week. However, you have to post your predictions tonight. Come on slugger, step up to the plate. Don`t trip on your mouth.

do you know mike hart is projected to go in the first round by mel kiper?

How about this, b-diddy. You predict where you think the three will go in the draft and the loser leaves the board for a week. However, you have to post your predictions tonight. Come on slugger, step up to the plate. Don`t trip on your mouth.

no, i dont think so.

"slugger"?

The old "Make a huge bet to pretend you have some balls" trick. Good call to just say "no" to bukakedow, diddy.

no, i dont think so.

"slugger"?
Then either put your money where your mouth is or shut the fuck up.

Why should he shut up? I like his posts. Don't always agree, but...

The old "Make a huge bet to pretend you have some balls" trick. Good call to just say "no" to bukakedow, diddy.
"Huge bet"? You can`t be serious. If not being on this board for a week equates to "huge" for you, man, you are a miserable little shit.

Then either put your money where your mouth is or shut the fuck up.

bukdow, did the bulldykes in cell block d give you a rough time tonight?

bukdow, did the bulldykes in cell block d give you a rough time tonight?
Nope, just slapping down the little turd known as b-diddy.

So then what they did to you tonight won;t be considered "rape"?

So then what they did to you tonight won;t be considered "rape"?
Its cute how you come to the rescue of your bottom.

Hey, none of that "Streets of San Francisco" jargon with me pal. And Bottom was one of Shakespeares great characters, so lay off.

Hey, none of that "Streets of San Francisco" jargon with me pal. And Bottom was one of Shakespeares great characters, so lay off.
Oh, I see. So, you are the bottom.

Hey, none of that "Streets of San Francisco" jargon with me pal. And Bottom was one of Shakespeares great characters, so lay off.

http://andrewmcc.com/pwned.jpg

Oh, I see. So, you are the bottom.


makes no sense...

Wil, when you are not a graduate of THE Michigan State University nothing makes sense to you.

I think the most infuriating thing is the lack of adjustments. Did carr or debord even consider rolling henne away from gholston. schilling was an embarassment out there, but how about some original ideas. Also, the no huddle seemed to be working pretty well for the one series michigan actually moved the ball, but they never went back to it.

I doubt they could have done that with Henne. Schilling is the RT, which means they'd have to roll Henne to the left. Almost all QB's experience a huge drop off in arm strength and accuracy rolling to their off arm. Couple that with Henne's hurt shoulder and I doubt he makes it threw a series with that strategy.

I do agree with the no huddle comments they made though. We needed to change the pace and never really did.

I doubt they could have done that with Henne. Schilling is the RT, which means they'd have to roll Henne to the left. Almost all QB's experience a huge drop off in arm strength and accuracy rolling to their off arm. Couple that with Henne's hurt shoulder and I doubt he makes it threw a series with that strategy.

I do agree with the no huddle comments they made though. We needed to change the pace and never really did.

You can always roll out and plant your feet before throwing or design patterns that make for easier throws while rolling out. Also, you wouldn't have to roll out every play, you just need to give the defense different looks so that they don't know exactly what is coming on every play. The bottom line is that the debord/carr crew has never been able to make in-game offensive adjustments like the top tier coaches.

On the other side of the ball, I thought that the defense and English did a better job of making adjustments this year (though osu mostly packed it in on offense in the 2nd half).

Rolling out on that slippery field/day would have been tough. Not sayin dont give them the look though.

Excuses. If there's two things that Chad Henne has shown me in his 4 years it's his ability to roll out/run.

App St

Tahoe, you're seriously the biggest douche on this board.

Tahoe, you're seriously the biggest douche on this board.

:emo kid:

Everything you guys talk about would be a great suggestion if Henne's shoulder wouldn't have been separated. I bet we see him go uner the knife here shortly.
He should have been YANKED, he couldn't throw the fucking ball to save his life.
Does ANYONE see the blatantly obvious, and then post? Or do you sit in the dark and think up ways that Michigan could have won the game in "Magic Football Wish Land"?

I agree Zip.

I'm speculating that Lloyd felt that he owed that PT to Henne because of the decision to come back for another year.

You know, this game makes for some serious jokes under the green and white tent.

I would pay cash for tapes of those conversations.

I bet they are a lot like FDR's "fireside chats".

The problem I have with that is that he owed the team the best chance to win, and Henne sucked ass, when his receivers weren't dropping the ball.
Henne is a gamer, no doubt, and he has actually proved pretty durable, given that uM's offensive line, IMO, hasn't exactly been a strength of this team over the course of his career.
But he just couldn't do it Saturday, and then there's the risk of damaging the arm permanently.
Sometimes, ya just gotta be a coach.

Zip Posts are free. Going back and analyzing the game is what fans do. I don't think there is anyone who isn't moving on, but nothing wrong with looking back on this game.

Zip Posts are free. Going back and analyzing the game is what fans do. I don't think there is anyone who isn't moving on, but nothing wrong with looking back on this game.

Um, you haven't been getting our invoices?

Check your PMs.

Uh oh, I'm fucked

Glenn, I know you're down and all about not being accepted into the green and white tent, but to cheer you up I've set one up for you right next to it:


http://www.1ant.co.uk/ad-pics/tent.jpg

Geez, Glenn, NOW you tell me to check my PM's.
Some guy just called me ten minutes ago saying he was from WTF Detroit and needed me to pay my invoice right away, so I gave him all 34 credit card numbers, my bank debit card number, and the numbers of my kids savings accounts.
I couldn't figure out why he needed ALL that stuff. I was a little nervous, but I guess I did the right thing.
Gotta support your message board, I always say!

Zip Posts are free. Going back and analyzing the game is what fans do. I don't think there is anyone who isn't moving on, but nothing wrong with looking back on this game.

That's fine, Tahoe, but the problem wasn't play calling or some magic 34 Skidoo formation that you and xanadu could have emailed Lloyd druing half time, the problem was that Henne couldn't throw the damn ball.

Zip, I admit you were ahead of all of this(Lloyd leaving, etc) and have moved on. More power to ya.

Tahoe<---still living in the past. Another promising year that ends with diapointment.

I felt marvelous then, I feel marvelous now.

BTW, Tahoe, I set up a tent for you too:

http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/31sZnVCuo1L._AA280_.jpg