i'm going to say the thing that everyone's afraid to say: Amir Johnson isn't close to ready.

i really, really, want to buy into the Langlois koolaid and believe that Amir will be the first Pistons' max player, but watching him on the floor.........the dude is still way too raw to be effective. he's extremely agile for a bigman, but he's just too unrefined and he looks clueless when it's not free-wheeling fastbreak basketball. i just don't see any improvement skill-wise since last season. i KNOW he hasn't had much "real" NBA PT, but he's had a chance to play in the NBDL and he's had a few summers to develop his game. this is his third season and he still shoots like a girl (sorry, WNBA) and has no semblance of an offensive game.

i'm going make a prediction and say that Amir barely makes a blip this season. he might average career highs across the board, but those will be deceiving because he'll be in more blow outs, racking up dunks against 3rd stringers.

i think he's still 2-3 years from becoming a reliable bench player. i don't think he's a bust, but i really think he's further off from making an impact than the Piston's brass will lead us to believe. no doubt Amir will be exciting for moments because of his athleticism, but i don't think he's going to be an impact player for 2, 3 maybe 4 years. i stand by my claim that this piston's bench will be exciting/fun to watch (amir being a part of that), i'm just disappointed when i put down my pistons pom-poms and realize that Amir is still more project than player right now.

does anyone else feel this way with Amir? i'm praying that he'll prove me wrong and we can mock and ridicule me for this thread.....

Good post.

I don't think anyone knows for sure what type of player he will be. Can he put on weight and become a power player? Is he a big man that can slash? Can he grow enough to become a Tim Duncan or Jermain O'Neil type of player?

At least Stuck knows what position he is going to play and what to learn.

on a side note (maybe deserves it's own thread), i've been real pleased with Maxiell's rebounding lately. ever since he got called out for being a pussy on the boards, he's gone for double digit rebounds in 5 of his last 6 games.

yea, completely agreed.

just look at his development. hs, where you know he was getting 0 coaching, like, less than grade school coaching.

then he goes to the nbdl where i suspect (never watched) team basketball is literally never played.

so for our purposes, he is 100% raw. hes extremely gifted, sure. but he hasnt even developed his own skill set, let alone found his nitch in the team scheme.

if he plays, it will be a joe d edict, i seriously doubt flip wants any part of him.

Keep in mind he just came off an injury and hasn't played steady minutes in a game atmosphere since the last few games of the regular season last year. So on top of the fact that he is raw, he is rusty.

The one thing that I don't get about this team "developing" players is that they don't ever seem to tweak a players jumpshot form. Tayshaun... Terrible, though a part of me understands since he came here as a solid shooter, and he had too many years of organized basketball under his belt to alter it without screwing him up completely. But Amir was always a project. We didn't have to worry about the transition to the new form screwing him up (the jumper would always be a secondary weapon anyways). Why didn't someone in the Pistons organization work on this with him? Same with Stuckey and his slingshot. It's not like his jumper is anything better than shaky right now, why not help him tweak it for the long run?

Matt, you realize you just commented on a game he played shaking off a month of rust after spraining his ankle, in which he still went 4-4 from the field...right?

You just might want to wait until waiting until he plays in a regular season game before throwing in the towel on him for this season...

Keep in mind he just came off an injury and hasn't played steady minutes in a game atmosphere since the last few games of the regular season last year. So on top of the fact that he is raw, he is rusty.

The one thing that I don't get about this team "developing" players is that they don't ever seem to tweak a players jumpshot form. Tayshaun... Terrible, though a part of me understands since he came here as a solid shooter, and he had too many years of organized basketball under his belt to alter it without screwing him up completely. But Amir was always a project. We didn't have to worry about the transition to the new form screwing him up (the jumper would always be a secondary weapon anyways). Why didn't someone in the Pistons organization work on this with him? Same with Stuckey and his slingshot. It's not like his jumper is anything better than shaky right now, why not help him tweak it for the long run?


Look at Jarvis Hayes. He has the picture-perfect jumper, and he shoots under %40.

Stop critiquing jumpers on appearance, ESPECIALLY when they're secondary weapons, like Amir and Stuckey. If the shit ain't broke, don't fix it. Amir isn't going to ever take a jumper unless the defense dares him to ANYWAY, in which his form really doesn't matter, does it?

It also seems like a very odd time to get on Stuckey about that, since he was hitting his jumper effortlessly last night.

I'm always afraid that threads like this are going to give Keith Langlois a stroke.

I'm looking forward to seeing Amir play some more so I can see what the concern is all about.

I wonder how tolerant we're all going to be when playing the kids starts costing us wins? That is the real storyline of this season IMO.

And Flip Saunders can't afford to lose, which might make him feel like he's being set up to fail.

<enter 010101010101>

Look at Jarvis Hayes. He has the picture-perfect jumper, and he shoots under %40.
That's poor shot selection. Besides, He's been the best jumpshooter on the team so far in the pre-season. 2nd best? Afflalo, another guy with a great looking jumper.



Stop critiquing jumpers on appearance, ESPECIALLY when they're secondary weapons, like Amir and Stuckey. If the shit ain't broke, don't fix it. Amir isn't going to ever take a jumper unless the defense dares him to ANYWAY, in which his form really doesn't matter, does it?
If they want to be just solid role-players, sure. That's fine. But if they want to be great players, they need to hit jumpers. Not just wide-open ones either. KG, Sheed, Bosh, Brand, Dirk, Duncan, etc. All are deadly mid-range shooters. It doesn't matter if they're wide open or have a defender or two in their face.

The problem with Amir is not that his shot doesn't go in, it's the fact that his release point is at his chest. That's going to get swallowed up the second he tries to get it off with a man anywhere in his general vicinity.

And Stuckey is a guard. Even Tony Parker, with Blazing speed, and insane finishing ability needed a jumpshot before he became a great player. Stuckey is quick, but not that quick. Eventually, teams will sag off of Stuckey, and shut off all of his driving lanes. If he can't consistently burn them, he will be in trouble.


It also seems like a very odd time to get on Stuckey about that, since he was hitting his jumper effortlessly last night.

Bad form often results in being very streaky. See Tayshaun. When he's hitting shots, he's hitting everything. When he's missing, he's terrible. I noticed even in the summer league that Stuckey was a hot/cold guy. I give Stuckey a pass for a while (well, once he gets back), but it's something to watch.

I'm not saying either will be bad players (I think both will at the least be good starters in the league), but these are legitimate concerns.

Form may not be the be-all end-all to a good jumpshot, but it sure as hell matters.

For every shooter with a crappy jumpshot in the NBA, how many are there that actually have a good looking jumper?

Bad form often results in being very streaky. See Tayshaun. When he's hitting shots, he's hitting everything. When he's missing, he's terrible.
No, he's not, which is why he ends up on the court for so damn long even with semi-competent reserves. And, Tayshaun's gotten more consistent over time. His shooting streakiness has had more to do with road versus home and who he guards than his Marion-esque jumper.

No, he's not, which is why he ends up on the court for so damn long even with semi-competent reserves. And, Tayshaun's gotten more consistent over time. His shooting streakiness has had more to do with road versus home and who he guards than his Marion-esque jumper.

He's on the court so long because he hasn't had a backup that his coach thought was anything better than garbage since Corliss. Plus, even when he's not hitting his jumper, he's doing other things (Defending, posting-up for those hooks, and finishing in transition). His jumpshot, remains very streaky. And I've heard the "it's because he's guarding _______" excuse, I don't really buy it. I hear it a lot whenever we play against the Lebron's and Tay's jumper abandons him. Yet, Tayshaun has had some of his best offensive games against Lebron.

I don't buy the home/road thing either. Last year, he shot 46.4% at home, and 45.7% on the road. But on threes he shot 36.6% at home, and 40.4% on the road. But he just seems to go through extreme peaks an valleys throughout the year. Moreso than the average player. And that's when a good form on his jumpshot would help him. That month or so every year where he can't hit a shot to save his life.

Reggie Miller had an awful looking shot.

It doesn't have to look pretty, but the release point may play a factor. It depends on what his offensive role is when he finally becomes a full time player. most big men could probably get away with mid range shots granny style, because they take them wide open anyway. If Amir attacks the rim (facing it or back to the basket) %80 of the time, then the open jumpers can be from his chest (provided he can hit half of them). If he is supposed to be the primary creator on offense (like Dirk is), then yes it will be a big problem. Marion gets away with his form because he's guarded by smaller players mostly, and he's also got Nash creating space for him with his dribble.

So, it really depends on what Amir's role is before it matters.

I don't buy the home/road thing either. Last year, he shot 46.4% at home, and 45.7% on the road.
I meant that in the past tense, which is why I prefaced that with "he's gotten more consistent". He has had his problems with home vs. road, definitely -- it was 48% home, 42% road the year before, and moreso during the playoffs.


But on threes he shot 36.6% at home, and 40.4% on the road. But he just seems to go through extreme peaks an valleys throughout the year. Moreso than the average player.
There were only a couple times last year that Tayshaun shot under 40% for three straight games. Once was between Christmas and New Year's. The other was during the playoffs against Cleveland defending LeBron, where he was just getting worn down over time.


And that's when a good form on his jumpshot would help him. That month or so every year where he can't hit a shot to save his life.
The past couple years, his worst shooting month was February, right around the All Star break, and he still shot 40%-41%. He's nowhere near as streaky as, say, Chauncey, and Chauncey has a better shooting form by far.

Matt, you realize you just commented on a game he played shaking off a month of rust after spraining his ankle, in which he still went 4-4 from the field...right?

You just might want to wait until waiting until he plays in a regular season game before throwing in the towel on him for this season...

i'm not talking about the last game by itself. it's how little Amir's progressed when he came into the league, when he was a project. i just think that he's still a project.

like i said, i think he'll get good numbers but that's because he'll play scrub time and get fastbreak dunks.

the reason Tayshaun can't get his jump shot off at will is because of his awful form. he's a superb standstill shooter, but have him shoot off the dribble and it's painful to watch.

Kevin Martin makes Amir look like he should be on a basketball basics instructional video on shooting.

Kevin Martin makes Amir look like he should be on a basketball basics instructional video on shooting.

So true. Ultimately, I don't care how Amir or Tay shoot the ball, as long as they stay consistent with form and put the ball in the bucket. I've always been a purist when it comes to shooting form, so I can hardly believe I just typed that . . .

form does matter, though. if he releases his shot low, he isnt getting it off. period. sheed is considered so lethal not because hes that great of a shooter, but he can get off a great shot whenever he wants due to his release point that is ~8'1/2 feet in the air.

if you have a slow and low release, you will never be that affective of a shooter in this league, even if you can make it at a high %.

form does matter, though. if he releases his shot low, he isnt getting it off. period. sheed is considered so lethal not because hes that great of a shooter, but he can get off a great shot whenever he wants due to his release point that is ~8'1/2 feet in the air.

if you have a slow and low release, you will never be that affective of a shooter in this league, even if you can make it at a high %.

ARod's slow bat > Amir's slow and low release

if you have a slow and low release, you will never be that affective of a shooter in this league, even if you can make it at a high %.


Kevin Martin shoots like a 10-year old girl.

Michael Adams shot like a 10-year old girl, and he was only 5'9."

If you can create space for yourself, you do not need to have a great release point, even if shooting is your #1 specialty and everyone in the gym knows you're going to shoot anytime you touch the ball.

im done with this subject. this is feeling suspiciously like the time you argued young players dont get better.

You're done because I completely contradicted what you just said and you don't have a logical response. All you can do is try to change the subject.

But yeah, since we're clear on that, let's move on.

Kevin Martin shoots like a 10-year old girl.

Michael Adams shot like a 10-year old girl, and he was only 5'9."

If you can create space for yourself, you do not need to have a great release point, even if shooting is your #1 specialty and everyone in the gym knows you're going to shoot anytime you touch the ball.
you're comparing Amir to a bunch of guards who have the ball handling skills and quickness to get their shot off. granted, Amir is quick for his size, he's no guard who is going to break his man off the dribble to get his jumper off.

until i see Amir do this in a game, all of your comparisons and examples are meaningless. from what i've seen from him (i was actually in Vegas to watch one of his summer league games), he's still too raw offensively to be an impact player. i stand by my 2-3 year estimation until i see Amir draining open jumpers and/or developing a go-to move with the ball. right now, Amir is merely an agile bigman who can run the floor.

until i see Amir do this in a game, all of your comparisons and examples are meaningless. from what i've seen from him (i was actually in Vegas to watch one of his summer league games), he's still too raw offensively to be an impact player. i stand by my 2-3 year estimation until i see Amir draining open jumpers and/or developing a go-to move with the ball. right now, Amir is merely an agile bigman who can run the floor.

That's a mighty fine trump card.

Whats the over/under on minutes played for Amir in the opener???

My guess is he'll get 5 minutes in the first half, maybe another 4 or 5 in the 3rd quarter, and none in the 4th...

so set the line at 10.5...i say under

Well, McCoskey says he's out of the rotation right now, so he'll have to work his way in.

Well, McCoskey says he's out of the rotation right now, so he'll have to work his way in.


4 million per and he's not even going to see the floor?? is it because of his injury or just b/c he's not ready yet?

A little of both, I'm sure.

What happened to waiting 'til the guy gets some burn before jumping to conclusions... according to Flip he's still having trouble holding position in the box (ankle)... so far his shooting % should not be questioned (NBA or or D-league)... Jmax is ahead of the game so far and deserves a larger share of the
PT until Amir wins the battles.

before i get labeled as anti-Amir, all i'm saying is that he's farther from being a contributing player than the hype from the front office will lead us to believe. he's got the physical gifts to become a special player, but i don't think it's going to "click" for him until another few years.

all the Langlois nonsense (the first piston's max player??) and blurbs from blogs would lead you to think Amir's going to break out this season. i just don't see it happening. i'd love to be proven wrong in this case, of course.

OTOH, Maxiell, Hayes, Stuckey, and even Afflalo have shown some promise as key contributers this season. Maxiell's game is more complete now with outside jumpers and he seems to be focused on rebounding. Stuckey seemed to get better and better. That last game when he got hurt, he showed some outside range and started to heat up. Stuckey's efficient driving to the hoop, but if he can get that outside jumper going he's going to live up to the hype. Jarvis Hayes even looks like a Joe D-certified steal of the summer. There's something about Afflalo's game that i really like and he even showed some outside range towards the end of preseason (wasn't he supposed to be a good shooter in college?).

before i get labeled as anti-Amir, all i'm saying is that he's farther from being a contributing player than the hype from the front office will lead us to believe. he's got the physical gifts to become a special player, but i don't think it's going to "click" for him until another few years.
What concerns me is that he can go from "explosive" and engaged on the court, looking like the next Amare, to "wouldn't know he was playing". Maxiell, as a contrast, seems to make everyone "aware" of his presence on the court more frequently. I'm not sure if that's a lack of comfort on the court on Amir's part, lack of familiarity with plays, etc. because I haven't seen him play enough. I agree with the titular sentiment that he is still a project, but I can envision him putting it together in a hurry and being an effective part of the team.

i'm going to say the thing that everyone's afraid to say: Amir Johnson isn't close to ready.

i really, really, want to buy into the Langlois koolaid and believe that Amir will be the first Pistons' max player, but watching him on the floor.........the dude is still way too raw to be effective. he's extremely agile for a bigman, but he's just too unrefined and he looks clueless when it's not free-wheeling fastbreak basketball. i just don't see any improvement skill-wise since last season. i KNOW he hasn't had much "real" NBA PT, but he's had a chance to play in the NBDL and he's had a few summers to develop his game. this is his third season and he still shoots like a girl (sorry, WNBA) and has no semblance of an offensive game.

i'm going make a prediction and say that Amir barely makes a blip this season. he might average career highs across the board, but those will be deceiving because he'll be in more blow outs, racking up dunks against 3rd stringers.

i think he's still 2-3 years from becoming a reliable bench player. i don't think he's a bust, but i really think he's further off from making an impact than the Piston's brass will lead us to believe. no doubt Amir will be exciting for moments because of his athleticism, but i don't think he's going to be an impact player for 2, 3 maybe 4 years. i stand by my claim that this piston's bench will be exciting/fun to watch (amir being a part of that), i'm just disappointed when i put down my pistons pom-poms and realize that Amir is still more project than player right now.

does anyone else feel this way with Amir? i'm praying that he'll prove me wrong and we can mock and ridicule me for this thread.....

:cogent:

Huge upside, but he is raw. I tried to key on him last night.

Wait wait, so you're suggesting the local detroit media was just spinning what the front office wanted out there????????????????????

I never would have imagined.

btw, what's this week's excuse for the lack of Amir now? is he still "recovering from his injury"??

He's not good at basketball.

He's not good at basketball.

h8r!

It's pretty obvious now that they gave him that big contract just so his salary could be included in a trade for Kobe.








I AM ONLY KIDDING!! I STILL BELIEVE IN YOU, AMIR!!

btw, what's this week's excuse for the lack of Amir now? is he still "recovering from his injury"??

kstat defended him, so it only makes sense that he now sucks. had kstat taken the other position, im sure we'd be talking about an amir mvp right now. im telling you, its uncanny kstat's ability to always be wrong.

Still a project, but fun as hell to watch.

hxLXmKSukCE

Amir's issue is conditioning from what I see. He loses leaping and as he's in the game longer i noticed and agility. Gotta get his legs better. Needs to be more ballsy a shooter again. They were giving him that jump shot all night. Take it to force honesty.

Amir's issue is conditioning from what I see. He loses leaping and as he's in the game longer i noticed and agility. Gotta get his legs better. Needs to be more ballsy a shooter again. They were giving him that jump shot all night. Take it to force honesty.
I'm wondering how much of that is Flip Saunders. I could see him thinking that if he misses a shot, he's benched for 3-5 games.

Still a project, but fun as hell to watch.

hxLXmKSukCE

Amir + Samb = Pistons Twin Towers 2009?

I'm wondering how much of that is Flip Saunders. I could see him thinking that if he misses a shot, he's benched for 3-5 games.

If he had that attitude about missed defensive rebounds he might not spend so much time on the bench.

It's not about whether the youngsters can score, if they don't defend and don't rebound they will blow leads and get put back on the bench after a short stretch.

Amir + Samb = Pistons Twin Towers 2009?

The Twin Towers got raped. That's not a good nickname anymore.

oof

If he had that attitude about missed defensive rebounds he might not spend so much time on the bench.

It's not about whether the youngsters can score, if they don't defend and don't rebound they will blow leads and get put back on the bench after a short stretch.
Note that statistically, Amir's been doing pretty darn good on all these fronts -- a positive +/-, low opponent PER, and a Ben Wallace-esque rebound rate. Even the best rebounders get ~20% of the potential rebounds, so everyone can suck if you tally up how many rebounds they didn't get.

anyone having second thoughts yet?

Whatever... he's still a virtual 20 year old rookie... nothing is close to being determined on this kid... realized potential no... untapped upside... hell yeah.... it's not all about today.

It should be about today. The kid's demonstrated enough in garbage time to actually have a play run for him and to get a little burn in the 2nd quarter, and that simply hasn't happened except by accident.

Amir could impress in a run/gun system where his athleticsm would be a huge asset (Golden State, Phoenix, etc)....but in our half court system, he looks like a 3 year old in a crowded mall. lost.

in our half court system, he looks like a 3 year old in a crowded mall. lost.

:kennythejet:

If you don't ever have a play run for you, of course you're lost.

Our half-court "system" consists of "jump first, three second, maybe go inside if I can draw a foul third, jump fourth, three fifth", and we only ever put Amir in as the 5th option. Is that a weakness with Amir, or the system?

i know i say the same things over and over, but we have an interest in developing amir johnson. developing means playing the dude, and taking some bruises for the greater good.

amir johnson clearly is a talent. no one i've seen has said otherwise. he COULD develop into an impact player in this league. but will he? probably not. talented players fizzle out all the time, and it looks alot like we're more than happy to see amir go the way of the darko.

its really not even worth getting upset over anymore. i just hope we can still use him in a blockbuster trade and have him be a big piece.

Hey, what is vegas putting the odds at that Flip says Amir is not playing because he lost his teddy bear when he was 8 and he's not emotionally over it yet.

Give me a break, Flip is such an idiot and hypocrite. He says he need "strength and experience". How the hell do you get experience playing 2 min. in a blowout.

How many games are we up 20 and going into the fourth and Amir comes in with 5 min. left??? Play him, and let him work through his mistakes. At least give him the opportunity to fail instead of not even giving him that chance.

Joe D. please can Flip and either take over the team or bring in Bill Laimbeer.

lol @ anyone thinking the pistons would listen to laimbeer



seriously guys..

I'd like to think they would listen to Laimbeer more than they do Flip. Seeing as how no one pays attention to Flip now.

The absolute truth is that we might as well trade Amir while he still has value. He will never progress as a Piston. Why??

This team is incompetent at handling young players and shows no signs of getting any better. I don't give a shit if they are young or raw or whatever. Give them some PT and let them develop.

Examples:

Afflalo is given several games as a starter when Rip is out, plays well, and then gradually sees his role reduced until he doesn't even make it into some games.

Samb show reall promise in his only real playing time against the Lakers and as a reward is sent to the D-league.

Maxiell shows defensive skills and tons of energy yet rarely plays his first two years in the league.

Amir.........never gets to play despite showing glimpses of greatness.

Darko.....ok, he sucks but his development was handled extremely poorly to say the least.

Stuckey....this is the only player who they seem to be developing correctly. They are getting him his pt and letting him make mistakes so that he learns.

The absolute truth is that we might as well trade Amir while he still has value. He will never progress as a Piston. Why??

This team is incompetent at handling young players and shows no signs of getting any better. I don't give a shit if they are young or raw or whatever. Give them some PT and let them develop.

Examples:

Afflalo is given several games as a starter when Rip is out, plays well, and then gradually sees his role reduced until he doesn't even make it into some games.

Samb show reall promise in his only real playing time against the Lakers and as a reward is sent to the D-league.

Maxiell shows defensive skills and tons of energy yet rarely plays his first two years in the league.

Amir.........never gets to play despite showing glimpses of greatness.

Darko.....ok, he sucks but his development was handled extremely poorly to say the least.

Stuckey....this is the only player who they seem to be developing correctly. They are getting him his pt and letting him make mistakes so that he learns.

Agree 100%. I do think that Stuckey needs to start showing something though. The doubters are starting to get pretty mad, especially here, and with some good reason.

I think there are some people here in the grip of post-darko traumatic stress when it comes to rookies. Maxiell and example of failure? Amir anything but a raw project? Samb ready for big minutes? Get a grip.

Look around the league and find another legitimate contender that just dumps PT on every rookie that comes their way. I'll spare you the trouble, it doesn't happen. Only in the case of extreme need or extraordinary talent do rookies get a ton of burn on a good team.


Most rookies follow a three-year arc of working the way into the rotation and if they don't do it in the third year they go on the scrap heap. Add another year or two for high school projects.

I think there are some people here in the grip of post-darko traumatic stress when it comes to rookies. Maxiell and example of failure? Amir anything but a raw project? Samb ready for big minutes? Get a grip.

Look around the league and find another legitimate contender that just dumps PT on every rookie that comes their way. I'll spare you the trouble, it doesn't happen. Only in the case of extreme need or extraordinary talent do rookies get a ton of burn on a good team.


Most rookies follow a three-year arc of working the way into the rotation and if they don't do it in the third year they go on the scrap heap. Add another year or two for high school projects.

First of all, I think that you are badly misquoting me or simply don't grasp my argument.

Maxiell is a perfect example of how NOT to handle our younger players. I NEVER called him a failure but can you honestly say that we couldn't have used his energy or shot blocking interior presence in last years ECF?? If he had played during teh regular season more he might have been a factor.

I also never said anything about Samb getting "BIG MINUTES". He does deserve to be in the team and get a few minutes of PT at least every other game so that he can become comfortable.

You HAVE to play your rookies at least a little. It boosts their confidence and bring in energy. Contenders or not, you have to get them some pt. And the fact at saying contenders don't play rookies is just plain WRONG. I don't know where you get your information but just look around. Look at the Spurs. The played Udrih as a rookie. They played Oberto. How about Cleveland and Boobie. He played as a rookie. Dallas with Devin Harris a few years ago and now with Barea. The list goes on and on.

I also love how everyone is complaining that the Pistons real problem is no interior D and a lack of rebounding. WE have thet in Samb and Amir.......if they ever played. A friend of mine was saying how the Pistons need a guy like Biedrins in the middle. Would you rather have Amir or Biedrins??? I'll take Amir and some growing pains.

barbosa played 20 minutes a game in 70 games as a rookie.

tony parker played 30 minutes a game in 77 games as an 18 year old rookie.

manu played 20 mpg.

lakers found 16 for kobe.

dont even have to bring up duncan.

i could actually dig up alot.

saying "contenders dont play rookies" is wrong. they do. we dont. we have a horrible record of developing talent. its easier for a prince, or a maxiell to ride the bench because they enter the league fairly ready to contribute from day 1. when your a stone's throw away from getting pt, its easier to stay prepared than when its basically "nothing you can do will get you pt". concidering that young 20 yr old players usually want to party, play video games, and not concentrate on improving, its really risky to just stash them on the bench and assume that they are developing themselves.

Amir is not a project.

Rename to:

Amir Johnson is ready to be in the rotation.

Let me say his dribble still sucks and like stuckeys fouls when he doesnt have to some times. but he's still not a project.

No doubt he has to work his ballhandling a bit and has to refrain from some poor rookie-like decisions.

led the team in +/- tonight...

Amir Johnson is going to be a stud he would be a top 10 pick maybe top 5 if he was coming out of college this year and he is ready for serious minutes

Stucky has for real game however he needs to be more consistent at the line and finish his moves are sweet but he needs to be polished

But seriously I think AA needs more PT he is a serious lock down defender and has a sweet stroke and the maturity and DM needed to have a positive affect on the game

:amir: [smilie=pistonsfloo:

No doubt he has to work his ballhandling a bit and has to refrain from some poor rookie-like decisions.

At what point do they change from "rookie-like decisions" to just mistakes? I mean, it is extremely rare for even the best players in the game to play mistake free. Every single game our starters make numerous mistakes that someone might call "rookie-like". He played 13 minutes and his only real mistakes (2) came in a 10 second span. And both (the TO and foul) are things I've seen the Vets do hundreds of times over the years.

Players make mistakes. You can't expect young players to play mistake free-ball, when the regulars don't.

At what point do they change from "rookie-like decisions" to just mistakes? I mean, it is extremely rare for even the best players in the game to play mistake free. Every single game our starters make numerous mistakes that someone might call "rookie-like". He played 13 minutes and his only real mistakes (2) came in a 10 second span. And both (the TO and foul) are things I've seen the Vets do hundreds of times over the years.

Players make mistakes. You can't expect young players to play mistake free-ball, when the regulars don't.

There was just one incident last night I was referring to that was "rookie-like" that he can eliminate. When he posted up and tried to make a move towards the baseline, he brought the ball down when he was going to make his move, right into the defender. If it were Sheed, he would've kept the ball up, this is something Amir should be able to learn from him. He didn't have the space to bring the ball down.

That's the only thing and those are the mistakes I am talking about, I've got no beef with the foul.

Amir!

He's still raw as hell, but his relentless, wild play is becoming fun to watch. i forgot who originally made the dennis rodman comparison and can sort of see it. his game is completely unpretenious, just run around and be a hyperactive rebounder and shot blocker. i like the combo of Max and Amir crashing the boards.

I don't think anyone made a Rodman comparison. I know someone made a John Salley comparison.

I don't think anyone made a Rodman comparison. I know someone made a John Salley comparison.

found it....it was Codename V in the Blazers OGT:


I think Amir could be the next Dennis Rodman. He has great rebounding hands and a nose for the ball. His hustle is A-1. I may miss the second half, but definitely dvr on the rest. Good weekend wishes to everyone.

Matt > The Mailman.

I think Amir is more like john salley than dennis rodman in that they are both the help-defending/shot-blocking type while Rodman, although a great help-defender, was never a great shot-blocker (which had to do with him being such a great on-the-ball defender and focusing on obtaining position for the rebound rather than blocking the shot).

Rodman, in my opinion, was the greatest rebounder to ever play this game. Amir Johnson will never be in his league. He tries to block too many shots (which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing).

The fact that Rodman's not in the hall of fame is an absolute shame.

With all that being said, Amir Johnson has the potential to be MUCH better than John Salley. Salley was always a little soft and often settled for jumpers while amir is much more physicially gifted (both in leaping ability and strength) and is not afraid to attack the rim, glass and his oppenent's shot. He is exactly what this team needs. It's a shame that he's still so young and not to the point where he can play big minutes at the 4 in big games.

I'm glad that Amir has had a chance in games to finally prove what he can do. He has a lot of raw talent, and is so young that I don't think he's even begun to tap his potential. There were a lot of people in here early on that were worried about what kind of player Amir could be, but I think he's hushing every doubter about now.

More importantly with Amir is his attitude. The guy was in the D-League for 2 years, sat the bench for most of this year, and has to deal with Flip's crazy substitution patterns. Yet there wasn't one word of complaint from him. In fact, it looks like he took it upon himself to get better and let his play get him minutes. The guy is much more bulked up than he was even last year, and he still will get even stronger. I have seen him hit jump shots, he's just not comfortable with that part of his game yet. He will be in due time.

And if we're doing the comparison game, here's mine:

Amir Johnson is what Pacers fans hoped Jonathan Bender would be.

YOU GO VISIT JOHN BENDER IN FIVE YEARS

yea, hard not to get excited after last night. his body type is almost exactly like a very young KG's. and he's got that same quickness, which is really exciting.

what he becomes is entirely on him. joe raved about how much he likes playing D. thats cool. pretty much, its on amir as far as what kind of a player he wants to be. whether its rodman, salley, garnet, duncan. whatever. we know he has a shooting touch, he just needs to work on that form.

i am impressed with his attitude. imo, it looked like we set him up to fail and he did not. good stuff.

Looks like we don't need Camby after all, lol.

Amir is a working model volcano built out of clay that erupts baking soda and vinegar.

The Pacers wanted Bender to be a SG.

Bender could have played all 5 positions if he wanted to, Fool. Don't ever think otherwise.

He also played cheerleader a lot too.

Amir is a working model volcano built out of clay that erupts baking soda and vinegar.
???

Do I even want to know?

a "project"

too young for the Brady Bunch, I assume

Just slightly.

You mean kids don't do that shit anymore? Jesus Christ, when I was a kid a good 50% of the experiments at the Science Fair were some variation on the working model volcano.

I never did a Science project/Science Fair once in my life. Teachers never gave me shit for it either because I was such a shy/nice kid.

and cuz I was banging the Science teacher (female)

My science project was "what made better paper: wood pulp or recycled paper" surprisingly, i think wood pulp was better.

I was supposed to measure how plants grew under different conditions (more/less sunlight, fertilizer, water, etc...). Blew it off, of course, so the night before I went and bought six of the same plant but all slightly different sizes and made up the results. A solid B+ effort.

Here's an original project idea: which gum lasts longer?

Amir is a working model volcano built out of clay that erupts baking soda and vinegar.

Holy shit does that bring back mems.

Shit, I'm fairly young and I remember that.

“I’ve been looking at free agency, and I’m really excited about our draft. I think the young kid, Amir Johnson, could be special.”

--Larry Brown, July 2005

I miss Larry. He may have been a douche, but he was a douche that got the most out of his talent.