Discuss...

No problem with it. Just the douchebags, like there are in every religion. What do YOU think?

Being a Christian, I agree with WTFMICH. Most principles of Christianity are very good principles by which people can live. However, it is when people stretch these beyond their meaning that you see these "doucebag" radical Christians.

So uhm...can we talk about the other religions in here too?

I'm about ready to go into defend Christianity mode. The attacks seem to cross the line at times, but that is the way it is today.

At the same time, I was going to joke, "No you can't talk about any other religions, give Jesus his time'

Maybe thats where I'm going with this too, where do jokes cross the line?

So uhm...can we talk about the other religions in here too?

Judaism and Christianity get hammered pretty much every day. Have at it.

I'm not gonna hammer any religion, I just feel the same way about all of them (don't have a problem with them, hate the assholes).

BTW I feel the same way about Atheism. I was one, but I'm now more of an Agnostic than anything nowadays (been trying to get into Buddhism actually).

I'm not gonna hammer any religion, I just feel the same way about all of them (don't have a problem with them, hate the assholes).

BTW I feel the same way about Atheism. I was one, but I'm now more of an Agnostic than anything nowadays (been trying to get into Buddhism actually).

Hopefully I didn't imply you were, just watching TV every day, there seems to be someone bashing it every day. You have to have a pretty thick skin to be a devout ...insert religion here...

Yeah, I agree there. I had a friend who did nothing but condemn Muslims, Buddhists, Gays, etc and I just don't want anything to do with any type of person who is like that.

Discuss...

Being Catholic myself, it saddens me that Christianity has fragmented so much that Christian has fought against Christian in the past. But like all other religions, sometimes it takes a dominating role in a persons life that in some areas doesn't have the right to be there i.e abortions.

I was raised Catholic, and went Catholic schools for seven years, and therefore am wondering why this isn't just in the 'Things that suck...' thread.

I don't know. I guess it's complicated. If you're in the majority, expect to get picked on a lot and just deal with it. I'm a white boy and if people make fun of white people, that's cool, because I'm in the majority and it helps to be gracious about it.

Now on to Christianity. I think a lot of people are especially sensitive about Christianity because it's so closely tied in with American culture. So it's had a free ride for a very long time and it still does in a lot of ways now. The fact of the matter is, there would be a lot of poking fun at other religions too if the majority of people even bothered to learn anything about them. But with Christianity, it's up in your face all the time and you gotta know everything there is to know about Jesus and the Apostles and whatever even if you don't really care, so it's kind of unavoidable.

But with Christianity, it's up in your face all the time and you gotta know everything there is to know about Jesus and the Apostles and whatever even if you don't really care, so it's kind of unavoidable.

You're gonna burn in Hell for that one, son.

Tapioca pudding. Discuss.


[smilie=blaha.gif] :dismissed:

I don't know. I guess it's complicated. If you're in the majority, expect to get picked on a lot and just deal with it. I'm a white boy and if people make fun of white people, that's cool, because I'm in the majority and it helps to be gracious about it.

Now on to Christianity. I think a lot of people are especially sensitive about Christianity because it's so closely tied in with American culture. So it's had a free ride for a very long time and it still does in a lot of ways now. The fact of the matter is, there would be a lot of poking fun at other religions too if the majority of people even bothered to learn anything about them. But with Christianity, it's up in your face all the time and you gotta know everything there is to know about Jesus and the Apostles and whatever even if you don't really care, so it's kind of unavoidable.

I don't see Christianity in my face all the time, but perception is reality. For me it feels like eveyone is up in Christianity's face all the time. I'm not a practicing Christian so I don't think I'm hyper-sensitive to it, but who knows.

I'm a practicing Lutheran and I can see where the negative view of Christianity comes from. We (Americans) tear apart the Islamic religion for interpreting the Qur'an for whatever propaganda they want, and it usually translates into violence.

The problem is some hardcore Christians will talk about how they are better than that and that it proves Islam is evil, but they they'll go quote the Bible to create their own propaganda. I'm so sick of seeing people on TV misquote the Bible just to create their own message of hate. There are a good amount of Christians out there who aren't bigoted and hypocrites, but many "Christians" ruin the image of Christianity.

For example, I sat down to watch Real World with my girlfriend a while back, and the group decides to go to a Gay Pride Parade. Everyone thinks it will be fun, except for the "Christian" girl who quotes "God" as to saying homosexuality is immoral and wrong and they'll burn in hell, etc. She then goes on to cheat on her boyfriend. Adultery, of course, is not mentioned in the Bible, if I recall correctly.

I looked at my girlfriend and said "That's the reason we get a bad rap" and walked away.

People generally know very little of "Jesus and the apostles and whatever". Even "practicing" Christians.

Most Christians I know are probably only Christians because they're scared of what happens after they die.

Adultery, of course, is not mentioned in the Bible, if I recall correctly.


I don't know about the Bible, but not committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments.

I don't know about the Bible, but not committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments.

http://www.dsfanboy.com/media/2006/02/Sarcasm.jpg

Here's a great example: today I had to take a pre-employment piss test at a hospital. I show up and there's a gigantic bleeding crucifix looming over everyone while I cross my legs for an hour and a half in the lobby. Is it really necessary?

I've got a Buddha statue in my house. I like it enormously. But I put it away when I have non-Buddhist guests in my house, because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. There's no special power it has that will do anything amazing, so who cares if I put it away? But do the Christians feel the same about their monuments? I don't think so.

Another thing that is an imposition on non-Christians are the many "public morality" laws on the books that clearly have no relation to any reasoned argument, but are in fact based on the Christian conceptualization of sin. Why can't you buy liquor on Sunday morning? Why aren't people allowed to buy sex toys unless they are packaged and sold as "adult novelties" (and in some states, not at all)? Why are there sodomy laws? Why can't gays get married? There's no reason for any of this except that some people are really religious Christians and therefore are overly worried about the souls of others.

If I was in a formal debate, and I argued that the public morality laws of our country meant that we'd be paroling armed robbers and serial sexual offenders so that we can imprison people for carrying drugs, I'd lose the debate, because that's argumentum ad absurdum. No one would have believed it if they weren't living in the middle of it. But here we are, and there's no reasonable explanation for it.

When I was in 1st grade I wasn't allowed to lead the Pledge of Allegiance because I didn't want to say the god part.

That's all.

Are you're blaming the "War on Drugs" on Christianity or just linking any non-logical law (in your mind) with it?

When I was in 1st grade I wasn't allowed to lead the Pledge of Allegiance because I didn't want to say the god part.

That's all.

Herm even rolled hard back then.

When I was in 1st grade I wasn't allowed to lead the Pledge of Allegiance because I didn't want to say the god part.

That's all.

Did you have to put your head down as a result?

Did you have to put your head down as a result?

No, I just didn't ever again get assigned to that duty. I had to do some other bullshit when that was supposed to be my week, like clean the cat shit outa the sandbox or hand our graham crackers.

Here's a great example: today I had to take a pre-employment piss test at a hospital. I show up and there's a gigantic bleeding crucifix looming over everyone while I cross my legs for an hour and a half in the lobby. Is it really necessary?

I've got a Buddha statue in my house. I like it enormously. But I put it away when I have non-Buddhist guests in my house, because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. There's no special power it has that will do anything amazing, so who cares if I put it away? But do the Christians feel the same about their monuments? I don't think so.

Another thing that is an imposition on non-Christians are the many "public morality" laws on the books that clearly have no relation to any reasoned argument, but are in fact based on the Christian conceptualization of sin. Why can't you buy liquor on Sunday morning? Why aren't people allowed to buy sex toys unless they are packaged and sold as "adult novelties" (and in some states, not at all)? Why are there sodomy laws? Why can't gays get married? There's no reason for any of this except that some people are really religious Christians and therefore are overly worried about the souls of others.

If I was in a formal debate, and I argued that the public morality laws of our country meant that we'd be paroling armed robbers and serial sexual offenders so that we can imprison people for carrying drugs, I'd lose the debate, because that's argumentum ad absurdum. No one would have believed it if they weren't living in the middle of it. But here we are, and there's no reasonable explanation for it.

I have a picture hanging in my living room that has a cross on it and I have a cross in the other room. I never take it down when I have guests over, even my Muslim friends. That would be stupid, in my opinion. Why hide things that are part of who I am?

I would never have a problem with you having a Buddha statue in your house. It's your house, your beliefs. I really would doubt anyone would be uncomfortable with that when their over at your house, unless their a total jackass.

I've never had any problem with anyone being of a different religion than me. My best friend is Muslim, an ex-girlfriend was Jewish, and I have a lot of friends that are Agnostic or Athiest. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I will never speak about my religion unless they ask me specifically to talk about my beliefs.

I don't know about the Bible, but not committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments.

See post #20.

Who would have a problem with a statue of this?

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/images/buddhaedwards.jpg

I really like the idea of a supreme being. I've went with agnostic beliefs for quite a while now. I have this picture of an old man, head bowed, bowl of soup and bread on the table, hands clasped praying to some supreme being. I love that pic.

So I don't care who anyone really wants to pay homage (is that the right way to say that?), but I think peeps should respect peeps beliefs and not insult them or something.

Well, I'm a very reserved person and keep my opinions to myself offline when I'm even around family or friends (I'm very shy though so that may have something to do with it), so I guess I wouldn't keep a statue or anything like that even in my own house in plain view. Maybe that's because i'm worried about what people think of me deep down?

a

I've got a Buddha statue in my house. I like it enormously. But I put it away when I have non-Buddhist guests in my house, because I don't want to make them uncomfortable. There's no special power it has that will do anything amazing, so who cares if I put it away? But do the Christians feel the same about their monuments? I don't think so.
Apart from an Elvis CD, the only visible iconography in my home that might be construed as "religious" is a Celtic cross. It looks cool and fills space above the thermostat just so. It was sort of a housewarming gift, more a cultural icon than a religious one. I'd expect anyone who I invited in my home to not care, or comfy enough to say "hey, this bugs me" if it bugs them.


Another thing that is an imposition on non-Christians are the many "public morality" laws on the books that clearly have no relation to any reasoned argument, but are in fact based on the Christian conceptualization of sin. Why can't you buy liquor on Sunday morning?
Of course, some neighborhoods like perpetuating blue laws (Hackensack, NJ comes to mind) because it imposes a low-commerce day where traffic is less busy and things are a little quieter. The weekend as we know it evolved from religious times of rest and prayer. Should the cultural ideal of a weekend and the many laws associated with it cease to be? Some would argue that in a global economy, the weekend is already a myth.

people tend to confuse the message with the messenger, ie the chick from the real world who thinks the bible hates gays but forgets that the bible forbids adultery. that person is a schmuck, would be if she were agnostic or catholic (you might even say even jesus couldnt save her). but just because she doesnt have a clue doesnt mean the message is wrong.

__________________________________________________ _________

i might compare religion with music. theyve both been around forever, for some people they are very important, and for others they mean nothing and are just a waste.

I have a picture hanging in my living room that has a cross on it and I have a cross in the other room. I never take it down when I have guests over, even my Muslim friends. That would be stupid, in my opinion. Why hide things that are part of who I am?

I would never have a problem with you having a Buddha statue in your house. It's your house, your beliefs. I really would doubt anyone would be uncomfortable with that when their over at your house, unless their a total jackass.

I make an extra special effort not to bring harm to any sentient being. Even total jackasses.

BS, that's quite a little dichotomy racket you have going there, oh atheistic Buddhist smack-talking ahisma practicer. Better be careful or you'll wind up as internally-conflicted as Christian demonology, or religion, or whatever it is. :)

Never said I was a good Buddhist. Believe me, I see the contradictions.

Tapioca pudding. Discuss.


I like pudding.

I don't see Christianity in my face all the time, but perception is reality. For me it feels like eveyone is up in Christianity's face all the time. I'm not a practicing Christian so I don't think I'm hyper-sensitive to it, but who knows.

When you grow up non-Christian you see Christianity in your face ALL the time.

Are you're blaming the "War on Drugs" on Christianity or just linking any non-logical law (in your mind) with it?

1. Yes, I am blaming the War on Drugs on the Christian notion of community responsibility for individual sin.

2. There are many illogical laws, only some of them have to do with religion. Nice attempt at a strawman, though.

More importantly, there is a lot to say about the topic of pudding. Many of you are leaving out a critically important fact about pudding,

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x147/dspiewak/cosby_bill042903.jpg

No, I just didn't ever again get assigned to that duty. I had to do some other bullshit when that was supposed to be my week, like clean the cat shit outa the sandbox or hand our graham crackers.


Even as a child, Herm was into helping kids eat.

I'm a practicing Lutheran and I can see where the negative view of Christianity comes from. We (Americans) tear apart the Islamic religion for interpreting the Qur'an for whatever propaganda they want, and it usually translates into violence.




I agree in the sense that when somebody isn't "the same as you, they judge you or put a label on you", I'm Baptist and I've always thought thats something that hurts Christianity...as much as some Christians like to claim they are the purest of all people, they are quick to criticize and judge people based on what you wear, what music you listen too etc...

I hate that things get so complicated, I almost always keep my religious views to myself, I don't care to listen to a Jehovah Witness at my door, so I'm not going to force Christianity on a Muslim in return...

1. Yes, I am blaming the War on Drugs on the Christian notion of community responsibility for individual sin.

2. There are many illogical laws, only some of them have to do with religion. Nice attempt at a strawman, though.
Straw men can't be questions. I was asking for clarification, not accusing you of something I knew to be false.

Would you like to expand on how you define the nature of the "sin" of drug use as an individual one and how you relate community responsibility to Christianity alone (I'm sure plenty of Christian zealots would love to repeat your explination as loud and often as possible)?

As it stands (and I'm sure you already realize this because you've never presented yourself as a Fool on here) its an extremely vague and dare I say "tenuous" relationship as you've currently stated it.

Well, this is the best I can do under these circumstances, so I'll try to be quick about it.

Jesus was not particularly concerned about governmental philosophy. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars, et cetera. Jesus was concerned about the salvation of the individual, the moral choices of people in their own lives. The inner workings of the ruling class didn't really interest him.

St. Paul and the rest of the personages of the New Testament, however, had tons to say about governmental philosophy. And since they actually wrote the Bible and founded Christianity, their ideas are pretty much what Christianity is.

They believe it's possible to commit sin when there are no victims (I Corinthians 6:18). They believe that divine punishment awaits anyone who disobeys the government (II Peter 2:10 - I wonder if this same attitude pertains to Jesus? My guess is: probably not.) They believe that we all share responsibility for the individual sins and that punishment should be applied to everyone (Romans 5:12). Is it any surprise then that people sit quietly, tolerantly, uncomplaining, while other people are thrown in jail for acts they've committed against only themselves?

Check out SAB. (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm) It's a great resource for information.

I wondered how long it'd take for the SAB to come into this...


Jesus was not known to be particularly concerned about governmental philosophy. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars, et cetera. Jesus was concerned about the salvation of the individual, the moral choices of people in their own lives. The inner workings of the ruling class didn't really interest him, as far as the Bible reports.

St. Paul and the rest of the personages of the New Testament, however, had tons to say about governmental philosophy. And since they actually wrote the Bible and founded Christianity, their ideas are pretty much what Christianity is, and what Jesus is for that matter.
Fixed. :)

I dunno about anyone else, but I'd be weirded out if people started a religion around what other people say about me, especially when they obviously have their own agendas clouding things and clearly can't keep their stories straight. I've speculated that the only way to really find "God" is to embrace a healthy skepticism, that God eventually rewards those who think and say things like "DUH! These Bible words are contradictory!" with the secrets of the universe.

I dunno about anyone else, but I'd be weirded out if people started a religion around what other people say about me, especially when they obviously have their own agendas clouding things and clearly can't keep their stories straight.

IMO you just summed up perfectly why Life of Brian is, aside from funny, a really interesting view on the whole thing.

Well, this is the best I can do under these circumstances, so I'll try to be quick about it.

Jesus was not particularly concerned about governmental philosophy. Render unto Caesar what is Caesars, et cetera. Jesus was concerned about the salvation of the individual, the moral choices of people in their own lives. The inner workings of the ruling class didn't really interest him.

St. Paul and the rest of the personages of the New Testament, however, had tons to say about governmental philosophy. And since they actually wrote the Bible and founded Christianity, their ideas are pretty much what Christianity is.

They believe it's possible to commit sin when there are no victims (I Corinthians 6:18). They believe that divine punishment awaits anyone who disobeys the government (II Peter 2:10 - I wonder if this same attitude pertains to Jesus? My guess is: probably not.) They believe that we all share responsibility for the individual sins and that punishment should be applied to everyone (Romans 5:12). Is it any surprise then that people sit quietly, tolerantly, uncomplaining, while other people are thrown in jail for acts they've committed against only themselves?

Check out SAB. (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm) It's a great resource for information.
So your problem is with Christian governance overall and not specifically War on Drugs vis-a-vis Christians? You don't have to leave the Gospels for over zealous Christians to get "guidance" on political matters. Jesus' directive to go beyond the law (Jewish law) is enough. When you consider meerly thinking about adultery to be a sin, you don't need to look to Paul's notes to be inspired to look down on people. Of course, that same directive inspires philanthropy to the extent of one's own poverty in some. And the SAB is fine but I prefer a critical analysis of the synoptics over simple html commentary. I doubt that domain is owned by the modern day Rashi.

It's a beautiful thing when you see a post like that from a guy with a picture of the shocker in his sig.

Soren Kierkegaard once said something about how God values the doubt-filled nonbeliever far more than He values the assured believer. If there is a God, I hope that's true.

Fundamentally the biggest problem with Christianity is Christians. There's nothing really all that wrong with Jesus. Every religion runs the risk of the majority of its followers badly misinterpreting the intentions of the key person. Certainly this is true of Buddhism and there's no reason it wouldn't be true of any other religion either. However, the big Christian writers and clergy have twisted things around so badly that now, the most important things about Jesus are things that happened before he was born and after he died. As far as mainline Christianity goes these days, Jesus was conceived by Mary from the Holy Spirit, was born to a hail of starlight and gifts from afar, something something something, and then he died on the cross for your sins, was resurrected, and ascended into Heaven to judge the living and dead.

I mean, they teach the stories about how Jesus was a precocious child and went about preaching, fasting, and performing miracles, but those stories don't seem to have made much impact on the religion as it's practiced. In fact, Jesus might as well have never spoken a word in his entire life. For all the things Jesus did or said in his life, as recorded by the Bible, there's at least one of them being directly contradicted in practice by every large church or denomination.

Jesus said: do not worry about worldly things, it's your spiritual life that's way more important. He said: don't pray in public. He overturned the tables on the money changers in the Temple in Jerusalem. He fasted in the desert. He preached strongly for care of the poor, sick, and old. He befriended criminals and outcasts. He made a family out of people who were pariahs in their own communities. He mocked the religious leaders of the day for parsing the letter of the law and paying exactly zero attention to the spirit of it. Is Christianity about any of those things anymore? Ask yourself honestly.

In the book I was reading, "Slaughterhouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut, he tells a story that aliens came to Earth and studied why it was that so many people have argued and fought over Christianity. Their conclusion was that the story of Jesus was written in a way that it inadvertently taught all the wrong lessons. Jesus was the son of God after all, so in crucifying Him, the people screwed themselves. The lesson is this: well-connected people are not to be killed. It passes along the inverse lesson that there is a better kind of person to kill. A better Bible would have been one where Jesus was just some guy, you know? And after he spent his life walking around and haranguing the authorities and causing disturbances, and they kill him, then he comes back from the dead and starts performing miracles, because He's been adopted by God. People would learn that you shouldn't even kick around nobodies and bums, because you never know.

While I know Vonnegut was just trying to be funny, I can't help but agree. The story of Jesus is a thousand times more poetic and beautiful if you remove the magic birth and just make him a really good and wise man. But that part seems to be the only part mainstream Christianity cares about. Washed in the blood of the lamb, and all that. It's almost a death cult, with people walking around carrying images of their nominal spiritual guide as a corpse, and the instrument that killed him.

There's a kind of Christianity I like. It's the kind practiced by my mother. The kind where there's stories about things Jesus said and did, and the stuff Jesus says is printed in bright red letters, and everything else has been gently retired to the dustbin of history along with phrenology, astrology, and snake oil. The thing is, I don't even know if you can call that Christianity, when you compare it to what's going on now.

So that whole Drug War vs Christianity thing was COMPLETELY a red heiring and this was a "dude no one listens to Jesus anymore" monologue just waiting to get out.

My bible still has the words of Jesus printed in red and I bet my neices can still recite the beatitudes.

Like I've said before, the problems you describe are certainly out there but if all you can find are legalists and idolators, that's all you are looking for. There are plenty of grace and mercy christians, but you won't find them at political rallies or in headlines about abortion clinic protesters.

What do you want people who believe that humility is the greatest virtue to do? Take out ads in the paper or carry flags with arrows pointing towards themselves? Go fucking help someone man, if you don't find yourself knee deep in them then keep helping till you do. Either that or get in the market place and read Deuteronomy to the masses. Denying your calling will only get you eaten by a big fish.

There's nothing really all that wrong with Jesus.

I love this line. LOL, Jesus thanks you.

Not being a smartass here

So that whole Drug War vs Christianity thing was COMPLETELY a red heiring and this was a "dude no one listens to Jesus anymore" monologue just waiting to get out.

What do you want me to do? Nail down everything I see wrong with Christianity to a single point? I wish it were that convenient.

I sincerely believe this is true about the Drug War. The thing about there being different kinds of Christians is that the big sociopathic jerks among them are allowed to amass a lot of influence. They are given that influence by other Christians, for the sake of Christendom, and sometimes placed in positions of great power. The crazy things they say and do can be cited by scripture, kind of, in a way, so crazy things continue. Denounce them, and you denounce scripture. And we're back to the moderate Christians insulating the hard-line jerks from criticism again, and it all becomes a broken record. Why do we keep coming back to this topic? Have I been unclear?

We keep coming back to it because its the axe you like to grind. As to the "what I want you to do," I find it hard to believe that you simply HAD to go into your gripe with all of Christendom to address one issue. Do what you want, but when you start asking where all the good Christians are and then continue to be myopic and politics centric I'm going to point out the irony of looking for the meak among the crowd of self promoters.

Why wouldn't one have a gripe with "all of christendom"? It's ALL bullshit. Modern day mythology. Lies and fables.

Why wouldn't one have a gripe with "all of christendom"? It's ALL bullshit. Modern day mythology. Lies and fables.

Jesus is magic.

Why wouldn't one have a gripe with "all of christendom"? It's ALL bullshit. Modern day mythology. Lies and fables.

People like you crack me up.

You bash Christians for being narrow minded and imposing of their beliefs and yet you spew this kind of bullshit.

I'm amazed at the lack of humility some people show for their knowledge of the world around them. That questions about religion and theology that have been debated and studied by experts in every field for thousands of years can be solved with simple minded statements. I'm glad you have all the answers. Next time I'll just listen to you instead of researching things for myself.

No Quarter:

If your definition of bullshit is uproven, simplified statements, then I give you RELIGION as example A.

I like how you seem to think that because people study it, that's some sort of validation of it as a real concept.

They study it because it is a phenomenon that captivates all of humanity, from the beginning of time. They study it because governments base their authority on some sort of divine link. They study it because wars are fought over it, people die because of it, and ideologies that are poisonous pervade even in these "modern" times.

And, they study it because there's BIG MONEY in it. University jobs, corporations, and the like.
People like Joel Osteen study it because it allows him to pack an old basketball arena with 14,000 tithers every Sunday. Buddy, there's GOLD in them thar Dead Sea Scrolls, and even though no one has one OUNCE of PROOF of the existence of anything even resembling divinity, there's no shortage of suckers, narrow minded hypocrites, and governments to use it to control the masses.

DIS-missed.

You win. I can't believe you just managed to sum up thousands of years of philosophical and theological debate in one post. I am truly humbled.

Tom Jones is a powerful god.

Tom Jones is a powerful god.

Yeah, and he's never told some guy to climb up a mountain and kill his own son, and then at the last minute was all "HEY! Just kidding!"

Are you telling me you DON'T think that was a great April Fools joke?

People like you crack me up.

You bash Christians for being narrow minded and imposing of their beliefs and yet you spew this kind of bullshit.

I'm amazed at the lack of humility some people show for their knowledge of the world around them. That questions about religion and theology that have been debated and studied by experts in every field for thousands of years can be solved with simple minded statements. I'm glad you have all the answers. Next time I'll just listen to you instead of researching things for myself.

When it comes to the natural world, there's nothing less humble than the religion's absolute presumption of the existence of god(s), miracles, ressurections and assorted other myths.

Experts in religion and theology had a nice head start the search for answers because for thousands years they could pretty much execute heretics. In the last couple centuries as burning and beheading have lost ground to peer review in the contest of ideas, reason has been running circles around the supernatural.

Nice change of target there.

To believe is to know you believe, and to know you believe is not to believe.

Are you telling me you DON'T think that was a great April Fools joke?

Son of a bitch.
Now, that IS my kind of God! Are you telling me that Soddom and Gomorrah was the result of a "Burning Bag o' Shit" trick gone awry?

Well Zip you're pretty direct about what you think of Christianity. Enquiring minds would like to know the ways of the Zip.

To believe is to know you believe, and to know you believe is not to believe.


I get the first part...not the second part...

Not interested in sharing Zip? :(

I get the first part...not the second part...

If you truly know the nature of belief, you realize you're trying to convince yourself of something you don't really know. That makes anything difficult to believe. As Mark Twain once wrote, "Faith is just believin' what you know ain't so."

Not interested in sharing Zip? :(

I believe in what Neitsche said: God is dead. God is dead because we killed him. When we elevated ourselves to God hood ("And God said, "Let us create man in our image"), we brought him down to our level so we could understand him, and make ourselves master of Earth, Heavens, time, and space.
We went from using the mythology for governance and validation of human rule over other humans (linking our throne to The Gods) to finding a way to justify anything and everything we do as part of "God's Plan".

I'll give you that snippet for now. More to come, if you want.

But isn't that just criticism of us again? I'm not the smartest guy around so if I missed something, my bad. I was wondering more of what you believe. Afterlife? Any religion on the earth that seems plausible? Agnostic?

Agnostic? No. No bet hedging. If there's a God, he can see into your heart, right? He'd know you're a chickenshit.

There's not any plausible religion on Earth. They are based in mythology, they are glorified bedtime stories. Entertaining? yes. Realistic? Verifiable? No. And I'm not going to be swayed by "Well, it is not ours to reason why, merely to do and die" mysticism.
They're based in lies. The lies are perpetuated for personal and corporate and governmental profit.

You sound ripe for Bokononism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism)

What are your thoughts on Cthulhu, Zip?

There's not any plausible religion on Earth. They are based in mythology, they are glorified bedtime stories. Entertaining? yes. Realistic? Verifiable? No. And I'm not going to be swayed by "Well, it is not ours to reason why, merely to do and die" mysticism.
They're based in lies. The lies are perpetuated for personal and corporate and governmental profit.

I understand that. Not the first time I've heard that either.

But still wondering if you have found anything that you believe other than believing religions are all fucked up? If thats too personal, thats cool.

Not too personal at all. I put that out there all the time.

I wonder why religion is needed. Its usefulness ran out long ago. We should be smarter than that.

I believe that when you are freed from the grips of hellfire and brimstone, and an "angry, jealous" god, you are free to do right just for the sake of it. Not for some "eternal reward".

Does your wife share your beliefs (or lack thereof)?

Hell (ahem) NO she doesn't. She's all afraid of the big bad boogeyman in the sky and in the other place.

Man that'd make an entertaining reality TV (oxymoron?) show.

"The Goshboots...es"

It just isn't talked about. If she wants to go to church, she goes. If not, she doesn't.

When Freaky Christians start coming round, I head for the bar.

I am a practicing Pastafarian. Do I command more respect and less hostility here than the godless Zip does?

http://www.rhodes.edu/biology/hill/hill/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.jpg

No. Zip doesn't believe in God so that means he's all about beating children, kicking puppies, punching people before they eat apple pie, disrespecting Mom, complaining about baseball, and hating America. I agree with George H.W. Bush: he should have his citizenship revoked. (http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/ghwbush.htm)

Yeah! Send those fucking commies back!

I am a practicing Pastafarian. Do I command more respect and less hostility here than the godless Zip does?

I think you should go out for the Pasta Olympics.