Yeah because UM hasnt had a different RG the last 4 weeks.

Ringer is not the best back. Mike Hart still is the best back in the Big Ten. Ringer is a very good back in his own right.

Yeah because UM hasnt had a different RG the last 4 weeks.

Ringer is not the best back. Mike Hart still is the best back in the Big Ten. Ringer is a very good back in his own right.

Mouth Hart, Fart. Like what else would you say? Hart gets caught from behind more than somebody who likes to take it up the ass. Ringer & Mendenall from Illinois are squarely in that conversation. Of course they don't flap their jaws nearly as much so theres that. I'd like to see what either would do with what U of Mum has to work with. Not to mention 35 carries a game against shit like ND. Loved the 106 yards on 30 carries against NW for Hart. Ringer had 185 on 12. Think about it.

Mouth Hart, Fart. Like what else would you say? Hart gets caught from behind more than somebody who likes to take it up the ass. Ringer & Mendenall from Illinois are squarely in that conversation. Of course they don't flap their jaws nearly as much so theres that. I'd like to see what either would do with what U of Mum has to work with. Not to mention 35 carries a game against shit like ND. Loved the 106 yards on 30 carries against NW for Hart. Ringer had 185 on 12. Think about it.
Ringer is a better all around RB than Hart, no question. Not only is he a better player, he doesn`t seem to suffer from self-obsessed diarrhea of the mouth like Hart.

Edit...

Decided not to go there.

Javon isnt even the undisputed #1 back on his own team. But yet he somehow is better than Mike Hart.

Nice. Great job on winning the argument.

Javon isnt even the undisputed #1 back on his own team. But yet he somehow is better than Mike Hart.

Nice. Great job on winning the argument.

Well then take off the blue goggles for like a nano-second and DO TELL us who the undisputed #1 back is on the MSU squad. Would that be Jehuu with 9 carries for 32 yards in your world? I'm going with Ringer. Yes, Jehuu is a nice compliment to Ringer but that's it. Perhaps if you had some semblance of same you wouldn't have to run Hart against ND when it's like 60-0 in the 4th quarter.

#1 backs don't get dragged down from behind 20 yards downfield by DL which is why he'll be playing in the Onondega Flag league next year.

Don't get me wrong. Hart is a tough cookie (just ask him) and a very good player as well as team guy. He's just a little overhyped. Again Hill, Ringer, and Mendenhall are at least his equal without all the bullshit.

Uh, yeah. Great job of winning the argument.

Ringer has had two consecutive good games, but hart has been consistent his whole career. I seem to remember drew stanton getting Heisman consideration for a couple of games only to flop midway through b10 season. Let's see ringer dominate every game before we grant him best rb in big 10 status. hart had an off day against nw, but I also see that ringer went 22-83 against that awesome bowling green defense and for less than 100 against a powerhouse pitt team. ringer is faster, but hart always seems to get the needed yardage in clutch situations. penn state stacked the box vs. michigan, but hart still came through when needed. Also, I am pretty sure that the best rb in the big 10 should touch the ball at least once in an OT to get serious consideration for such a billing.

Not that this needs to be said, but hart was taken out of the game in the third quarter vs. notre dame.

"Also, I am pretty sure that the best rb in the big 10 should touch the ball at least once in an OT to get serious consideration for such a billing."

Like I said, maybe you should send the boneheaded staff the memo. One touch in the last 11-minutes of regulation? Look I know I'm treading on dangerous turf here presenting a case for 3 other RB's that are as talented as Mike Hart. I realize he is the beacon in what's been a disappointing year for A2 but...oh well.
You wanna' do stats?

Ringer 103 carries for 729 yards......7.1 per carry
20 pass receptions for 203 yards

Hart 175 carries for 976 yards....5.5 a carry
6 receptions for 36 yards.

Skill set?

Ringer is faster and the better receiver and just as strong.

Hart is a better blocker (I think..) Haven't seen Ringer block that much.

I'll take Ringer. I'll also take Mendenhall who I've seen 3 times this year. Hill? Not so sure. He is surely in the conversation. This was not what this thread was about and I'm done on the topic. I voiced my opinion in the critique of the game Saturday. I'm remiss to get into this on this site for sure. There's the stats and a skill set description. I'm done. Carry on.

Overall: During his first three seasons (2004-'06) Hart appeared in 33 games (29 starts) and rushed 750 times for 3,679 yards (4.9 average) with 27 touchdowns and one fumble. He has also caught 59 passes for 516 yards and two touchdowns. Hart missed four-plus games in 2005 due to hamstring and ankle injuries. Michigan implemented zone-blocking scheme in 2006 that clearly played to Hart's strengths as a patient runner with excellent vision. He does need more experience as a receiver and he will never be a great blocker. Furthermore, his lack of size and durability issues in college is a significant red flag for an upper-echelon prospect like Hart. However, his competitiveness, speed and natural overall running skills are outstanding, which is why he has to be considered one of the top senior backs in the 2008 class. Hart needs another healthy and productive season as a senior to solidify a spot in the top-two rounds.

scouts didnt rank ringer. they have hart as the top ranked senior back.

i do believe we are officially spartying at this point. i guess well have to wait for hart to break about 10 open field tackles at MSU before they concede this one.

"which is why he has to be considered ONE OF the top senior backs in the 2008 class." -Scout-

"they have hart as THE top ranked senior back."....b-diddy-

Puzzling, no?

"he will never be a great blocker." I disagree. He's a vicious blocker.

"He does need more experience as a receiver..." one of the reasons why Ringer is my preferred RB.

I don't question Hart is one of the top backs in the 2008 class. FYI Ringer is in the 2009 class.

i did know ringer was JR.

when i said they have him ranked as the top, i ment espn INSIDER, not scouts (necessarilly, maybe scouts also).

i think great blocker at the pro level, is what they ment.

the main reason i posted it was the " Hart needs another healthy and productive season as a senior to solidify a spot in the top-two rounds."

My point lies more along the lines of attempting to determine the best rb based on 2 games. Ringer has 4 runs of 45+ (250 yards in total) in those games. His numbers are gaudy, but what is up with the limted carries? Do you really think the huge plays will continue for the rest of the season? I want to see ringer keep making big plays after defenses have seen and adjusted to the new dantonio offense. Teams know what hart brings and still can't stop him (even with lloyd's extra-predictable playcalling with a true freshman qb). Let's see what ringer does over the long haul. Also, if we are talking skill sets: ringer is faster, but hart is a much better runner in traffic and in "moving a pile". Of course, i've only seen (or remember seeing) ringer in the wisc game, last year's ND game, and the Mich game from 2 years ago, so I don't know a whole lot about him.

edit: besides your (supposedly impartial) beliefs about hart being overhyped, what is an impartial way to determine if hart is indeed a better back than ringer. Hart has already been 1st team big 10 twice and a Heisman finalist. Also, U-M has not been exactly loaded on offense this year. Kraus and Long are outstanding players, but the right side of the line has been mediocre at best and is mostly fresh-soph from center to right tackle. Plus, he's played with a true frosh qb or an injured henne for most of the season. He has run center-left all year vs. an 8-man front most of the year and has 100 yards more than the next highest rusher. Barring injury, he'll most likely be a 1st day nfl pick next year. All the evidence you have that Ringer is better is that he had a better performance vs. NW and that he is a better pass catcher.

Also if ringer is the undisputed best back on his team, how come he only has 10 more carries than caulcrick?

I can't believe you people are really this delusional. Ringer has had a great couple of games, but comparisons to hart are premature at best, even if you hate the guy.

I wonder if Tre is keeping track of all the time Hart is missing these days...

I love Hart, but he definitely lacks breakaway speed. That said, he might have a better Oline than Rinegr runs behind, but he also gets it done when teams KNOW he is going to get it. Wouldn't it be nice to see Hart play in an offense that was less predictable than UM. Opposing defenses know when Hart is going to get it, they know where he is going to get it, and they know exactly where he is going to go with it.
If the only complain is that he talks too much, well then, he's right up there with 99.9999% of the people in the world.
Hart and Ringer are different backs, with different styles. Hart is also a great blocker like Ringer, BTW.
Hart will likely go over 5,000 for his career, Hip, and you know you didn't think much of him coming out of high school. I can't see where he is "overhyped".

Without him, UM is 0-6 this year (yes, they might have even lost to Notre Dame).

I don't want to jump in this quarrell, but the fumble stat needs to be brought up as well.

I don't know how many times Ringer has fumbled, but I can guarantee it's less that Hart. That stat is incredible to me.

I wonder if Tre is keeping track of all the time Hart is missing these days...

I love Hart, but he definitely lacks breakaway speed. That said, he might have a better Oline than Rinegr runs behind, but he also gets it done when teams KNOW he is going to get it. Wouldn't it be nice to see Hart play in an offense that was less predictable than UM. Opposing defenses know when Hart is going to get it, they know where he is going to get it, and they know exactly where he is going to go with it.
If the only complain is that he talks too much, well then, he's right up there with 99.9999% of the people in the world.
Hart and Ringer are different backs, with different styles. Hart is also a great blocker like Ringer, BTW.
Hart will likely go over 5,000 for his career, Hip, and you know you didn't think much of him coming out of high school. I can't see where he is "overhyped".

Without him, UM is 0-6 this year (yes, they might have even lost to Notre Dame).

Zip I hadn't seen any film of Hart in high school but I remember makiing comment on the board that echoed what I'd read on Rivals. "Questionable size, small school, can he take a Big 10 lickin'?" I'd say he's answered those questions in a grand manner.

All I said was that in my opinion, in my critique of the Boffo MSU game that to me Ringer is the best back in the league. I forgot that this is mainly a U-M site and I touched off all this shit. I showed stats for "stat boy" types. I listed skill set attributes. I'm a fucking Ringer guy. So kill me. That said it just might be that Rashad Mendenhall (Illinois) is better than both of them. Hill for Cheezitz is certainly in the conversation.

I rest my case on Ringer with... for my feature guy I want him to be able to go 80....Hart can't do that. Hell last year that hair bag Peku caught him from behind after about 30-40 yards. That is the difference.

Anybody that doesn't think that Hart is not a great back just says that because of his mouth and is not being objective. The guy is tougher than whale shit but Ringer is my guy. I can only hope you saw his 80 yarder to the house. Speed, strength and balance topped with 5th gear. That's what Im talking about.

"Of course, i've only seen (or remember seeing) ringer in the wisc game, last year's ND game, and the Mich game from 2 years ago, so I don't know a whole lot about him." -Xanadu-

Well I can see why you think I'm delusional then???? Look at the statistics posted earlier. You fucking people are a cult!! Mike Hart's really, really good man. Glug, glug, glu....Jesus Fucking Christ...........you win. Hope you can get a bus to upstate N.Y. to catch him in the flag league next year.

I have no problem with you being a Ringer guy. It probably boils down to which team you favor.
Those of us on the Michigan side have a deeper appreciation for Hart than stats, BTW.
If he ends up playing in the Albanian Flag Football League, it wouldn;t bother me one bit, and that takes nothing away from what has been a monumental collegiate career. He even had an injury shortened sophomore year that has taken yards out of his all time stats.
He's just damn good talent-wise, and his heart makes him great.

"Those of us on the Michigan side have a deeper appreciation for Hart than stats, BTW."

I get that. I respect that. Again I listed skill set AND stats. I don't care if he plays for Iowa. I was trying to be objective. Note I said Mendenhall who plays for Illinois might be better than both.

You list one years worth of stats.

You do not even bother with the fact that Ringer shares a ton of his carries.

This is great.

Ringer first 2 years since you already posted this years. 19 for 134 and a 7.3 avg and then 14 for 96 and a 6.9 avg.

Hart in his 1st 2 years was 26 for 237 and a 9.1 avg and then we have 16 for 154 and a 9.6 avg.

Yeah Ringer just blows Mike Hart out of the fucking water according to those numbers.

Now lets look at Hart vs the Big 3 of PSU, MSU and OSU and Ringer vs UM, PSU and OSU.

Ringer had games in 2005 of 16 for 76 in 2005 for 4.8 ypc
Vs Um he was 12 for 31 for 3.1 ypc
Vs PSU 3 for 6 for 2 ypc

In 2006 well he didnt play UM or OSU. That damn injury bugged. Man I wish Mike Hart was as durable as Ringer.
Oh vs PSU he had 3 carries for -0.2 ypc.

BTW Ringer didnt have to play Wisky or Iowa in 2005 or 2006.

Lets look at M. Hart from 2004. He didnt play PSU in 2004 so I will switch that for Iowa that season.
Vs Iowa 26 for 99 and a 3.8 ypc
Vs MSU 33 for 224 and a 6.8 ypc
Vs OSU 18 for 61 and a 3.4 ypc

On to 2005
Vs. MSU 36 for 218 and a 6.1 ypc
Vs. PSU 23 for 108 fand a 4.7 ypc
Vs. OSU 9 for 15 and a 1.7 ypc

2006
Vs. MSU 22 for 122 and a 5.5 ypc (finally shut him down)
Vs. PSU 26 for 112 and a 4.3 ypc
Vs. OSU 23 for 142 and a 6.2 ypc

I can add Notre Dame to the list, which can only help Ringer.

I would also add catches but that doesnt really show much other than Ringer was not thrown to that much.

But thanks for playing the Ringer is better than Mike Hart game. As you can see against each other and the other 2 or 3 "great" defenses in the league year in and year out...Ringer does shit and Hart is above average.

Keep thinking your part time running back is better than Hart. I know you guys need to hold onto something.

BTW Tre....I know you wont read this. Too many words.

"Those of us on the Michigan side have a deeper appreciation for Hart than stats, BTW."

I get that. I respect that. Again I listed skill set AND stats. I don't care if he plays for Iowa. I was trying to be objective. Note I said Mendenhall who plays for Illinois might be better than both.
Don`t even bother. You are dealing with a bunch of untermenschen that live vicariously through Mike Hart. Its absurdly childish. Them, Mike Hart and objectivity aren`t even in the same universe. You would get further trying to say something unfavorable about their mothers.

"Ringer first 2 years since you already posted this years. 19 for 134 and a 7.3 avg and then 14 for 96 and a 6.9 avg."

"Hart in his 1st 2 years was 26 for 237 and a 9.1 avg and then we have 16 for 154 and a 9.6 avg." -Artemis-

Uh, do I get the Captain Midnight decoder ring for this shit or what?? Last night stats weren't important. We've found out that our hero is more than about stats. Got it. He's the school mascot too.

Stats are nice. However as I said WAY EARLY in this exercise of banging my dome against a wall or taking on a fucking cult single handedly I wonder what Ringer might do running behind Long and not a patched up fucking mess that the MSU OL has been for two years with their injury mess. Oh gosh Blue is having trouble at the right guard spot? Bummer. Love to see Hart improvise with that blazing speed of his behind the MSU line the last two years. Hubba-hubba. Wonder what Ringer might do with the same number of carries. We'll never know will we?

I however notice NO FUCKING COMMENT on the fact that Hart is slower than the 2nd coming of Christ or how Hairbag Peku ran him down from behind last year. Sorry but this is no a t characteristic I'm looking for in my feature back. Have at it.

The cult member that has seen Ringer play 3 times called me delusional. Uh, got it. You have your Mouth Hart drool cup off center. Jesus look into an intervention.

"Keep thinking your part time running back is better than Hart. I know you guys need to hold onto something."-Artemis-

Here's what you can keep holding onto....Yer Boy 0-3 against Ohio State. Yer Boy 0-3 for Bowl Games. How's that working out?

Maybe you and Zany-do can get 2 for 1 bus tickets for the big flag bowl next year in upstate N.Y. so your memories of your hero don't wane.

I made the mistake in an MSU game thread of stating my preference for Ringer as the best back in the Big 10. This is based purely on skill set and seeing him play at least 12-15 times. I have obviously upset many coven members and for that I'm sorry. Talk about hanging onto something? I guess with you fucking Blue-Ade guzzlers it's Mouth Hart in a year when you lost to a 1-AA team and a bunch of fucking ducks make you look like Pioneer High. My bad.

priceless

....and like I said Rashad Mendenhall (sp) for Illinois could very possibly be better than either of them. GASP!!!!! When you can break away from staring a hole into your Mike Hart doll look into it. He's pretty good.

priceless
For moving this tedious hero worship circle jerk. It's like I said "Jesus likes to suck cock" at a Knights of Columbus rally just before St. Alphonso's pancake breakfast...(where I stole the margarine).....

Have at it fellas. Hart for Hillary's running mate. I'm sure he'll let you know at his next presser for sure which can't be more than a half-hour away at any time.

I loved the response Hip, what can I say?

Hart's a nice running back and so is Ringer.

I doubt that either will be special at the next level, but if you are a college sports fan, should it really matter?

Sorry to interrupt the venom, carry on...

Ok I will comment on your pathetic garbage that is what you posted.

Ringer behind Long, great. He can also have the 8 men in the box that Hart sees on a consistent basis. Yeah you have side stepped that little gem of information at all turns because it doesnt fit into your MO of Ringer is a better back.

Hart IS SLOW....wow you are just treading on new and untouched groun there hip. Never heard that before, but yet without speed he still manages to get the job done. I for one do not see him as a very good NFL back never said that, never will.

So he is ofer in bowl games, at least he has played in them. I am sure that if Ringer was there instead of Hart and got his usual 10 carries a game, he would have made a huge difference. Real nice.

Yeah I have seen Mendenhall, who plays in a true spread offense and the next time he sees 7 or 8 in the box will be the first time.

It is hard not to look like a good RB when you got a QB like Juice Williams, who gathers a lot of attention. I am not saying he is not a good back, but come on. Lets see him do something better than 11 for 33 against Mizzou or 18 for 76 against PSU. Yeah I know....the PSU game at 4.2 is not that bad. But for someone who is so much better than Mike Hart, I would expect more.

Hip did Budkow recently marry into your family or has he been injecting some of his dick into you, because man, I would hate to see you after Michigan wins this year. I think you might kill yourself, especially if Hart runs for another 200 against MSU and Ringer runs for his typical 35-40 yards against their rival or a good defensive team.

Bottom line....Hart gets it done against every kind of D that is thrown his way....Ringer...not so much so.

Please come here with another rant...they are quite amusing.

speed is overrated for backs, anyway. the running back position is all about moving the chains, 2 or 3 snaps at a time. those big 60 or 80 yard gains are nice, but not a necessary aspect of the running game. no one ever sends back the safeties because a running back is a big yard threat, like they might with a speedy, dangerous downfield air game.

so while it might be nice to pick up a td by breaking a big run play, its more of a luxury, and doesnt affect how coaches scheme as much.

that said, mike hart is pretty damn dangerous in the open field, and tough to tackle anywhere.

and please, PLEASE, stop with the "your not objective, only i am objective" nonsense.

It appears I've hit your Mouth Hart Nerve broadside. Take a deep breath before you seize up.

"Hart IS SLOW....wow you are just treading on new and untouched groun there hip."-Artemis-

Didn't think I was letting you in on a news flash. Not MY thing in a feature back. Simple-dimple. Sorry.

"I am sure that if Ringer was there instead of Hart and got his usual 10 carries a game, he would have made a huge difference." -Artemis-

Until Ringer starts calling the plays I can't hold that against him. You go ahead though. This just in. That fat ass Taylor won't catch Ringer from behind downfield anytime soon like Peku caught your hero.

"It is hard not to look like a good RB when you got a QB like Juice Williams, who gathers a lot of attention." -Artemis-

OK so it's Rashads fault YOU insist upon statues for QB's. Uh-huh. Got it.

"But for someone (Mendenhall) who is so much better than Mike Hart..."

Show me where I said that. Oh you can't? Reading comprehension is to be treasured. Do they have remedial reading there in Kaintucky??

"I would hate to see you after Michigan wins this year. I think you might kill yourself,.."-Artemis-

I'm a football fan not a groupie, nor keeper of the blue & yellow pom-poms. Obviously that job taxes your pea brain. You really going out on a limb there and predicting a win over the team picked to finish last in the Big 2 Little 8? Balls man, balls. Oh and you thank your lucky fucking stars for the Little 8 when you bow to your Hart Throne every night in the back room of the trailer you fucking inbred. What would you do without them? You haven't beat a team with a pulse since Christ was a fucking cub scout. Rewind. I don't expect MSU to win. How could anyone? Did you read my critique of them where you started this stupidity or did your Mouth Hart censor delete the material immediately? On the other hand if they do after you bloated fucking overrated gasbags have laid at least two DINO eggs to that point I'm sure you just may hook up the garden hose to the exhaust pipe and end it all.....death grip on the Mouth Hart doll goes without saying.

Sorry if the RB I'd want to feature doesn't fall into the coven guidelines. Here's where you come back with the "Coven Reply" (kind of like the Baltimore Catechism) "They are jealous. They are envious......" As some dope from Kaintucky would say. Nice!

As you were "Hart, Hart, he's our man......."

"Please come here with another rant...they are quite amusing."-Artemis-

Somehow Anusbreath I get the distinct impression your sniveling more than laughing. Ciao!!

"....speed is overrated for backs, anyway."

Uh, obviously.

"....and please, PLEASE, stop with the "your not objective, only i am objective" nonsense."

You throwing the word nonsense around is....rich.

Nice making fun of the state I live in, not the state I am from, from someone who lives in Florida, which just happens to have its own tag on Fark.com, because half of the USA stories come from that fucked up state.

You dont think your coordinator uses Ringer correctly....I dont think UM uses Hart correctly. How about a play action pass on first down now and then. How about a draw that is not telegraphed. How about not letting the FB motion and then follow him. They finally decided to pass the ball when Savoy was in the game.

Everyone pretty much hates their O-coordinator. Want to switch? I am sure Ringer will get plenty of changes to run the ball against 7 and 8 man boxes and heck, throw in a 9 man box while your at it and watch Debord continuously call running plays or not have a proper check out play.

Having a statue as a QB should hurt Hart in the running game, but it does not seem to. While I am sure that Juice being able to run the ball helps his running back. It is pretty basic. I thought all State fans played the game. Fucking Budkow....kidding with us once again. He is such a kidder. HAHA

If you werent a groupie, I never would have seen someone post that Ringer is a better back than Mike Hart.

"Nice making fun of the state I live in, not the state I am from, from someone who lives in Florida, which just happens to have its own tag on Fark.com, because half of the USA stories come from that fucked up state."

Yeah I think AAA just had a survey and Kaintucky was rated #2 for destination locations. Nobody comes to Florida. You're a fucking genius.

All this getting your BP worked up could have been averted if you weren't such a Mouth Hart gaybo. You take him and I like Ringer because I think he can do more. It is a matter of opinion and I 'd rather try to convince Father O'Flannery that Mother Theresa was a prostitute than point out a case that Ringer has more skills than Hart to you. This has been 30 minutes of my life I'll never get back. "Harty on...." You win.

"....speed is overrated for backs, anyway."

Uh, obviously.

yea, i think it is obvious. you want a quick back who gets to the holes quickly, but thats accelleration (of which, i believe mike H is at an elite level).

accelartion is critical to RB's. speed? i wouldnt call it inconsequential, but definitly not the top concern. i've not sure ive ever heard of a back passed on in the draft due to his 40 time.

if mike hart is constantly getting caught from behind, then chances are hes probably already had a pretty good run.

on the other hand, speed is a pretty convenient attribute for you to over appreciate, so i guess i can see where your coming from on this one.

if mike hart is constantly getting caught from behind, then chances are hes probably already had a pretty good run.

LOL Cogent

National awards
2006 Doak Walker Award finalist
2006 Maxwell Award semifinalist
2006 Walter Camp Award watchlist
2006 Heisman Trophy fifth place

Conference honors
2004 All-Big Ten Conference First Team (coaches and media)
2004 Big Ten Freshman of the Year (coaches and media)
2006 All-Big Ten Conference First Team (coaches and media, unanimous)
2007 Big Ten Preseason Offensive Player of the Year (media)

how does ringer stand up?

....nice to see you Cult Members have your materials at the ready. Do they make little fact filled refrigerator magnets for the members? Impressive. Just imagine a back with speed, strength and a better receiver working with a team that doesn't resemble a chinese fire drill. Put that imagination to the task. I'll take Ringer thanks.

....and if I'm a Doak Walker "Finalist" when I'm caught from behind I don't want the slug who catches me to be a defensive tackle but that's just me. Maybe if it's a DB I win the award.

....and if I'm a Doak Walker "Finalist" when I'm caught from behind I don't want the slug who catches me to be a defensive tackle but that's just me. Maybe if it's a DB I win the award.

Better make sure that all those idiot coaches see the tapes of him getting caught from behind before they vote for him as 1st team all big 10 for the third time.

Hip and Budkow....married October 8th.

Congrats.

Hip and Budkow....married October 8th.

Congrats.

You got up at 7:30 a.m. for that lame shit? What's next "Budkow & Hip sittin' in a tree...." ? I preferred the shit on the Mouth Hart Refrigerator Magnet.

Better back all things being equal?.....Ringer, hands down.

p.s. before I let you get back to the Hart Blow Up Doll I especially enjoyed your admission that Hart probably isn't a candidate for the pro's (could be in trouble with the cult on this one) and I was curious why that would be the case for such a great RB? Puzzling?

Actually I get up at 5 a.m. CST every day. So really stop trying to make yourself out as being special for me stopping by at 7:30 est.

So my shit is lame, but your "cult" shit is cutting edge and is just the best. I will get on twitter and let the world know how great your quips are.

Not all great college RBs make it in the pros. The list is endless. BTW I dont think he will be a great pro, but I can see him making it in the NFL for 5-6 years as a 3rd down back and a ST guy. He would be that guy on ST that makes an impact like Steve Tasker did for the Bills.

Again, I think Hart is a great college RB. Who knows he could end up like an E. Smith type of back who didnt have great top end speed, but ran between the tackles great and always seemed to fall forward. (I am not saying he will run for 20,000 yards, but if he finds a team like say the Broncos, he could do very well).

Hip:
Are you sure you haven't been influenced by a certain yapping punk with a badge on that other board? He's been on this "Hart talks too much" thing ever since Hart's first game. Personally, I think that is funny: The yappiest punk in Michigan thinks Hart "Smarts" off too much. A punk who wouldn't have the balls for this board.

Hip and Budkow....married October 8th.

Congrats.
Artemis, idiot boot-lick since birth. Congratulations. You sure the hell do live in "Kaintucky".

Hip:
Are you sure you haven't been influenced by a certain yapping punk with a badge on that other board? He's been on this "Hart talks too much" thing ever since Hart's first game. Personally, I think that is funny: The yappiest punk in Michigan thinks Hart "Smarts" off too much. A punk who wouldn't have the balls for this board.

This whole thing is too tedious to recap starting with another thread on the MSU game in which I called Sparty out for yet another Saturday wasted doing their imitation of "Huntz Hall and the Bowery Boys play football". As a positive I said I thought they wasted another great performance by Ringer who I thought was the best back in the Big 10. Well of course everyone with a Mike Hart action figure started to stroke out and broke out with eczema. Oh the fan mail. Peeps who'd seen Ringer play as many as 3 times questioned my sanity. It got ugly and while Smarty doesn't like Harts mouth neither do I. All his yippin' (go ahead name a topic) I think is funny too. Like anybody gives a fuck what he thinks about the Lockerbie Bombing.

For the last time, and I do mean the last fucking time because I really don't give two shits about Mike Hart ONE WAY or THE OTHER. He is YOUR GUYS beacon in a season of discontent. Not mine. So explain why I should be expected to worship him? I think Hart is a tough little bastard who runs hard and blocks his ass off. I give him his props but I draw the line at the blow up doll.

hater

hater


More heavy artillery from the cult. Why are you called Fool, Fool?

Have you ever actually TRIED it with a blow up doll?

Have you ever actually TRIED it with a blow up doll?

However it was the Elle McPherson model. Unlike Hart I think "she" actually liked it when I caught her from behind. My interpretation anyway.

More heavy artillery from the cult. Why are you called Fool, Fool?

Because I make Glenn laugh.

Because I make Glenn laugh.

My own personal jester, you are? [smilie=jester.gif]

He is also known as Fool because "Fingerbang" was already taken.

Come on now, Ringer over Hart? You are insane. Ringer is a good back and has more speed than Hart, I'll give you that.

If Mike Hart is so damn slow and so this and so that, than how does he end up at the all time leader in rushing yards at Michigan? How does he light up OSU, PSU and other top notch defenses?

Oh yea, 1 small thing you forgot to mention, the guy hasn't lost a fumble in over 900 carries.

Mike Hart may not be the fastest rb, but I can damn well guarantee he has been more consistent than Ringer or any MSU back I've seen. The guy doesn't fumble, his ypc for his career is 5, has 28 rushing td's the last 3 yrs.
Ringer can have all the long tds he wants, but will never be as consistent as Hart.


Please don't give me that argument that Hart has a better O-line, because if Ringer was so awesome Michigan would have recruited him and you couldn't use that excuse.

Go Blue

Please don't give me that argument that Hart has a better O-line, because if Ringer was so awesome Michigan would have recruited him and you couldn't use that excuse.

Go Blue

LOL@ the "because he's not at Michigan he's not that good" statement.

LOL@ the "because he's not at Michigan he's not that good" statement.


I never said just because he wasn't at Michigan he wasn't that good. I said he is a good rb. The problem I have is that State fans bitch about how their O-line is not as good as Michigan's and if Ringer ran behind Michigan's O-line, then he would put up even better numbers.

It's not Mike Hart or Michigan's fault that State has a worse O-line. I'm just saying if State fans are going to use that argument, why can't I use the argument that if Ringer was so awesome Michigan would have offered him a scholarship. I didn't say Ringer is not good, because he is a pretty damn good rb.

Because it assumes its conclusion. You are assuming that being at UofM = being better.

I'm not talking about the argument as a whole, just that last comment. You basically implied that Hart was better because he's at Michigan.

IMO Chris Wells is easily the best pro prospect in the big 10, but I still think hart could have a decent if unspectacular career. Anthony Thomas is still in the league and I don't see why Hart could not be as good a pro as he has been.

cogent arrogance at its best, i love it.

atrain had better size.

hart will be ok in the pros, but not as a featured back.

atrain had better size.

hart will be ok in the pros, but not as a featured back.

I know thomas is bigger, but I think hart is a better running back. besides, it seems like there are a lot of smaller backs in the nfl these days. LT, travis henry and willie parker are all pretty short IIRC.

Because it assumes its conclusion. You are assuming that being at UofM = being better.

I'm not talking about the argument as a whole, just that last comment. You basically implied that Hart was better because he's at Michigan.


I didn't imply hart was better just by being on Michigan. I spelled out explicitly why he was better (yards, tds, big games vs good teams, no fumbles).

Hart is a great back (just ask him). He's also a great leader (just ask him). He is also an overachiever (just ask him). He is a very very good college running back. See UM fans, it is okay to actually give a rival player some credit. You should try it sometime. I say very good college player because he'll never come close to making it in the NFL. Don't take that as a knock on him. Some guys just weren't born with the tools for the next level. He got the most out of what he was given (just ask him). And who cares if they are stars at the next level, we're fans of UM and MSU-not the Bengals or the Bills.

Ringer is also an amazing back. He mentioned this prior to the season and he is absolutely correct, if he got the carries guys like Hart got...he'd not only be comparable in stats, he'd pass them. You put Ringer on UM's team with their O-line and All American talent around him and you better believe he'd be putting up SICK numbers. Look at those Wisconsin numbers on the road against a tough defense. Tell me he isn't in the same category. If you can't acknowledge that he can stand side by side with Hart in terms of talent, then you either can't give a Spartan an ounce of credit or you aren't very knowledgeable.

LOL@ the "because he's not at Michigan he's not that good" statement.

Yeah, great argument. Well how about this Jenks, UM did not recruit him but Ohio State did. And Ohio State is better than UM, so I guess Ringer is pretty good. They pulled his offer when he tore his ACL his senior year. Tressel said in an interview that they made a big mistake. Great argument Jenks.

Some very strong passive agressive posts in this thread.

Well done!

Some very strong passive agressive posts in this thread.

Well done!

UM fans truly are mental pieces of work. Even when praise is given, they are on conspiracy alert finding a reason why MSU fans are saying something good.

"They must have an angle. They are passive aggressive. They must be overselling or underselling."

Geeeeeez O Pete (yup i really did throw that out there haha), can ya take anything at face value anymore? I praise Hart. But I also can't stand him so don't expect all butterflies in my post. I also believe Ringer is just as talented. It's as simple as that.

Tre is a great poster (just ask him), Tre is a great MSU fan (just ask him), Tre is not a big piece of shit (just ask him). Tre is a very, very good poster on this board. See it is not that hard to give a poster some credit. I say good poster on this board because he doesnt have the balls for the big league of forums. Don't take that as a knock on him. Some guys just weren't born with the tools for the next level. He got the most out of what he was given (just ask him). And who cares if they are stars at the next level, we're fans of UM and MSU-not the Bengals or the Bills.

Zip is also an amazing poster. He mentioned this prior to the season and he is absolutely correct, if he got the posts guys like Tre got...he'd not only be comparable in stats, he'd pass them. You put Zip on MSU's team with their kisses asses and All American assholes around him and you better believe he'd be putting up SICK numbers. Look at those posts on the road against other tough posters. Tell me he isn't in the same category. If you can't acknowledge that he can stand side by side with Tre in terms of talent, then you either can't give a UM fan an ounce of credit or you aren't very knowledgeable.

BTW Wisky gave up 38 to a pathetic PSU offense.

Following a team and posting is a game of excuses.

Art, every time I stand side by side with Tre, he tries to fondle my package.

Javon Ringer 200 yds, 2 tds

EAST LANSING – Against Indiana, Javon Ringer continued to make a case for being the best running back in the Big Ten.

After another stellar game, galloping for 203 yards and two touchdowns, highlighted by a 64-yarder to put Michigan State up 24-10 early in the second quarter, the junior certainly has a claim to being the most talented.

"(Ringer) is amazing," quarterback Brian Hoyer said after the Indiana game. "He's a once in a lifetime player that you get to play around because not only is he a great athlete, but he's a great person."

Later, as if on cue, Ringer graciously acknowledged his teammates after his performance against Indiana.

"Everything I did out there really has to go to my offensive line and the receivers blocking downfield," he said. "They kind of made my job easy."

Because of the high level of play by his offensive line, Ringer said he felt like he was getting stronger as the game progressed.

"Even though it was cold, I felt like I was (getting stronger.) The longer

even ringer admits that its more his line than him.

.................................................. ........................................

hart had 2 tds and 102 yards against a better purd team. plus he is a definite heisman threat this year, arguably a leading candidate. is ringer?

Ringer would if he was on an elite team like UM.

It's time to retire this old thread. Hart has proved himself to be a great running back at UM, and Ringer has great qualities that he'll hopefully get a chance to fully display over the next two years.
Sparties will always live by their own double standards: Hart is a Wolverine, therefore anything he does is wrong.
We're grateful to have him, they're grateful for Ringer, and it's time for the next topic.

Yeah, great argument. Well how about this Jenks, UM did not recruit him but Ohio State did. And Ohio State is better than UM, so I guess Ringer is pretty good. They pulled his offer when he tore his ACL his senior year. Tressel said in an interview that they made a big mistake. Great argument Jenks.


Once again you state fans are idiots and obviously cannot understand what I wrote. I never said that he wasn't good because he's not at Michigan or because Michigan didn't recruit him. Take about 5 seconds to read what I wrote:
" Please don't give me that argument that Hart has a better O-line, because if Ringer was so awesome Michigan would have recruited him and you couldn't use that excuse."

All I'm saying is that I'm sick of all the excuses for Ringer. Yes he is a very good rb and one of the top 2 or 3 in the big ten, no doubt. But, it seems like State fans just get jealous of Michigan. It's not my fault Ringer doesn't get as much hype, he is a good back and deserves more media attn. I just hate that stupid argument, if Ringer had Michigan's o-line, yada, yada, yada. I only said that line about Michigan not recruiting him because I was sick of the argurment, if Ringer was on U-M and blah blah.

If I had one million dollars I could buy a viper...no s*it. Ringers on MSU and Hart is on Michigan and that's a fact. Ringer and Hart are the best 2 backs in the big ten so please stop using the stupid excuse if Ringer was on UM he would have better numbers.

I'm not saying he wouldn't, but the fact that State fans seem to dislike Hart and use that argument over and over again irritates me.

Ringer would if he was on an elite team like UM.

"Richest, best, most powerful" Congratz. You're 0 for 3 and have been for more than 50 years. Lose the word from your "vocab" poser.

even ringer admits that its more his line than him.

.................................................. ........................................

hart had 2 tds and 102 yards against a better purd team. plus he is a definite heisman threat this year, arguably a leading candidate. is ringer?

Cuz when I'm thinkin' imposing "D" Purdon't always pops into my mind. Keep buying the hype. You jagoffs have been surviving on it for more than 50 years. Ringer credits his line? What all 12 of them who've played in that mash unit over the last 2 years? This thread is horseshit, started when I said I thought Ringer was the best back in the Big 10 when I was commenting on the NW game. Gee, I'm so disappointed in that I thought all the fellas in the canary yellow drawers and blue shirts were going to 2nd that emotion. One of you slappies comes on here and says I'm insane....the guy had actually seen Ringer play 3 times in the last two years. Fucking moronic. Let it die.

I love reading Zip and Jenks talking about how we hate Hart so we don't give him credit. Yet above, I clearly stated he is a great back. I also love reading about how we're jealous. Jealous of WHAT? Honestly, look at how things have shaped up for UM this year. Why would we be jealous at all?! Hart gets praise, he should. Ringer is also getting praise, who cares. We are talking about talent. Not what they've done in the past and not who gets more hype. We are talking about who is the best back.

IMO, they are side by side. I said that from the start. So I don't get why so many UM fans have their panties in a bunch over it.

Cuz when I'm thinkin' imposing "D" Purdon't always pops into my mind. Keep buying the hype. You jagoffs have been surviving on it for more than 50 years. Ringer credits his line? What all 12 of them who've played in that mash unit over the last 2 years? This thread is horseshit, started when I said I thought Ringer was the best back in the Big 10 when I was commenting on the NW game. Gee, I'm so disappointed in that I thought all the fellas in the canary yellow drawers and blue shirts were going to 2nd that emotion. One of you slappies comes on here and says I'm insane....the guy had actually seen Ringer play 3 times in the last two years. Fucking moronic. Let it die.

Don't even bother with Diddy, his posts are idiotic. Ringer gives praise to his teammates and Diddy posts something moronic. What a surprise. I guess he's not used to hearing his back be humble, he doesn't get it.

I love reading Zip and Jenks talking about how we hate Hart so we don't give him credit. Yet above, I clearly stated he is a great back. I also love reading about how we're jealous. Jealous of WHAT? Honestly, look at how things have shaped up for UM this year. Why would we be jealous at all?! Hart gets praise, he should. Ringer is also getting praise, who cares. We are talking about talent. Not what they've done in the past and not who gets more hype. We are talking about who is the best back.

IMO, they are side by side. I said that from the start. So I don't get why so many UM fans have their panties in a bunch over it.

My favorite A4 catchphrase taken out of the "Coven Handbook."

"They are jealous. They are envious." (Repeat 3 times in your best monotone delivery for best results.)

It just never subsides. They can't help themselves.

My favorite A4 catchphrase taken out of the "Coven Handbook."

"They are jealous. They are envious." (Repeat 3 times in your best monotone delivery for best results.)

It just never subsides. They can't help themselves.

It cracks me up when they think we actually would want to be in their situation. I'm watching GameDay yesterday and some OU fan is holding up a sign that reads, "LOL @ Michigan." People are still finding comedy in their season, yet WE would want to be in their shoes? If my Spartan Basketball team lost to a 1AA school, I'm be pissed, embarrassed, ashamed, and most of all SILENT. You can almost feel the UM fans getting pissy as their NC hoped season grinds its way to the end and basketball looming in the back of their minds.

It cracks me up when they think we actually would want to be in their situation. I'm watching GameDay yesterday and some OU fan is holding up a sign that reads, "LOL @ Michigan." People are still finding comedy in their season, yet WE would want to be in their shoes? If my Spartan Basketball team lost to a 1AA school, I'm be pissed, embarrassed, ashamed, and most of all SILENT. You can almost feel the UM fans getting pissy as their NC hoped season grinds its way to the end and basketball looming in the back of their minds.

no one doubts this one.

It cracks me up when they think we actually would want to be in their situation. I'm watching GameDay yesterday and some OU fan is holding up a sign that reads, "LOL @ Michigan." People are still finding comedy in their season, yet WE would want to be in their shoes? If my Spartan Basketball team lost to a 1AA school, I'm be pissed, embarrassed, ashamed, and most of all SILENT. You can almost feel the UM fans getting pissy as their NC hoped season grinds its way to the end and basketball looming in the back of their minds.

GREAT LOGIC! And, UM fans ARE pretty much silent when it comes to basketball, acknowledging that UM basketball is a complete joke.

Now, apply that great logic to Sparty Football fans. Your program is in the trash heap and has been for nearly all of the last forty years.
Yet Sparties still think it perfectly legitimate to talk shit about football.

Do you care to explain this double standard?

Add to that that it has seemingly been AOK to Sparty to pump up the volume, and the whoofing since the Dantonio hiring.
Again, though, UM fans excited by the hiring of Beline are categorized as idiotic, wasting time hoping for some improvement.

First of all, I wouldn't call a 5-2 team a trash heap. Especially one that has seen the Top 25. When was the last time UM bball was in the Top 25? A DECADE!

Talking trash? I don't think I've ever claimed MSU was great or better than UM in fball this year. My only trash talk came when I chose not to talk trash about the Appy embarrassment and Diddy chose to talk shit in response. Then I opened the can, but it was simply in response.

I think you should totally have optimism about Beilein and I've said it from the start. Maybe you should look back at old posts and try reading. However, if I know anything-it is basketball and they will be absolutely horrible this year. Mark that shit down.

Overall your team has been in the toilet most of the last forty years. Your 5-2 start and a sniff of the top 25 doesn't exactly bring you up to snuff.
Any way you slice it, Sparties are hypocrites and live a double standard.
If you follow your own logic, your OWN logic, you would be SILENT about football.
But as we know, there is no such thing as logic when Sparty is yapping.

And I'll be sure to note that bold prediction of yours that UM basketball is going to be horrible this year.
Vegas awaits you, oh Nostradumbass.

Overall your team has been in the toilet most of the last forty years. Your 5-2 start and a sniff of the top 25 doesn't exactly bring you up to snuff.
Any way you slice it, Sparties are hypocrites and live a double standard.
If you follow your own logic, your OWN logic, you would be SILENT about football.
But as we know, there is no such thing as logic when Sparty is yapping.

And I'll be sure to note that bold prediction of yours that UM basketball is going to be horrible this year.
Vegas awaits you, oh Nostradumbass.

I poke around this site. I'm still waiting to see an MSU fan whoof or say any differently that the football program has been "trick or treat" for 40 years. How many times have I said in the last few weeks that MSU is 3-16 over the last nineteen? Is this a new form of whoofin'?

I don't see where being encouraged by getting Dantonio, who IMHO, is a legit football guy with a pedigree that's been missing in MSU coaching selections of recent is whoofing? To recognize "D" is a former MSU DB Coach under Saban, who likes East Lansing, and knows the lay of the land AND is aware of the dumb shit power struggles that have helped sink the program shouldn't raise hopes? To be hopeful that what he learned under Tressel as DC of an NC doesn't translate as HC? That he has strong Ohio roots that should pay dividends in netting at least some of the Bucknuts overflow in a football rich state? I don't get it. Where's the whoofin'? Most of the shit I read here is of the "I like what I see SO FAR...". I'm going with cautious optimism. This is hypocritical? Again. as far as I can tell I'm the worst offender because as you know I've always maintained State has talent so I wasn't intimidated at all to bet you a book that MSU goes bowling. Five wins in with five games to go I kind of like my chances on cashing that check. I didn't pay attention to the assholes at Athlons or Sporting News, who every fall pick A2 or OSU...zzzzzzz......like they're on auto pilot and this year they pick MSU last. Every fucking one of them for the most part had them lower than Minny. I must be missing something around here 'cause I don't see a lot of check writing going on...

Add to that that it has seemingly been AOK to Sparty to pump up the volume, and the whoofing since the Dantonio hiring.
Again, though, UM fans excited by the hiring of Beline are categorized as idiotic, wasting time hoping for some improvement.

Beelein is going to yield fruit. He will have to run the same obstacle course as Dantonio and hear all the shit but I think he like Dantonio can coach 'em up. I think the parallels are between Dantonio and Johnny Be-good are dramatic...here's a little Dantonio factoid for you to chew on..

There are currently 62 players on the U of Cincy roster many in the "two deep" that Dantonio recruited. They played as tough a schedule as there was in D-1 last year and went to a bowl game. This year Kelly has them undefeated. Here is the breakdown as to their "Star Evaluations."

Total players signed 62

5 star players 0

4 star players 0

3 star players 3

2 star players 59

I think on the "basketball scale" JB will do the same thing. Dantonio has had to settle for the 2 stars and you can bet your ass Beelein will too for starters. When the wins come and I think they will A2 will look a little more attractive to recruits.

I have no reason to doubt Beline will do well at UM, and no reason to doubt Dantonio will succeed in East lansing.

let's take a walk outside of tre's delusional green-colored world and look at some facts:

fact 1: msu bball has had the same b10 record as u-m basketball the last 2 years and 3 of the last 5.

fact 2: msu fball has the worst record in the b10 since 2005 and just finished the easiest part of their schedule

fact 3: msu bball started as a top five team a couple of years ago and finished 8-8 in the b10 and lost in the 1st round of the tournament

let's take a walk outside of tre's delusional green-colored world and look at some facts:

fact 1: msu bball has had the same b10 record as u-m basketball the last 2 years and 3 of the last 5.

fact 2: msu fball has the worst record in the b10 since 2005 and just finished the easiest part of their schedule

fact 3: msu bball started as a top five team a couple of years ago and finished 8-8 in the b10 and lost in the 1st round of the tournament

Fact 4: Michigan State was voted the #2 Basketball Program over the past decade by ESPN and a couple of their writers voted them #1. Thank you for playing.

Anybody can find a few cracks in the castle X, but at the end of the day, you are still staring at a castle.

Wondering why Xanadu can disappear for a week+ and that is okay with B Diddy, but if I'm gone for like 2-3 days all hell breaks loose.

Originally Posted by xanadu
let's take a walk outside of tre's delusional green-colored world and look at some facts:

fact 1: msu bball has had the same b10 record as u-m basketball the last 2 years and 3 of the last 5.

fact 2: msu fball has the worst record in the b10 since 2005 and just finished the easiest part of their schedule

fact 3: msu bball started as a top five team a couple of years ago and finished 8-8 in the b10 and lost in the 1st round of the tournament


Fact 4: Michigan State was voted the #2 Basketball Program over the past decade by ESPN and a couple of their writers voted them #1. Thank you for playing.

Anybody can find a few cracks in the castle X, but at the end of the day, you are still staring at a castle.

A few cracks in the castle... i keep hearing how great the msu football is compared to u-m basketball when all objective evidence points to u-m basketball being much much better than msu football. when was the last time msu football had as good of a big10 record as u-m football. Yet u-m basketball can compete with msu basketball every other year.

You can't run from being the worst in the big10 since 2005

A few cracks in the castle... i keep hearing how great the msu football is compared to u-m basketball when all objective evidence points to u-m basketball being much much better than msu football. when was the last time msu football had as good of a big10 record as u-m football. Yet u-m basketball can compete with msu basketball every other year.

You can't run from being the worst in the big10 since 2005

Honestly dude, I can throw out 20 stats that points to MSU fball being better than UM bball and it'll all be objective. I've done it here in the past. Like postseason appearances, top 25 appearances, wins over Top 10 opponents, etc. We can go back and forth all day. Don't use BT records to compare because bball schedules are unbalanced and you can rack up 2 wins per horrible team a year and in fball, you can not.

"U of M basketball can compete with MSU basketball every other year." Are you fucking kidding me dude? Since you are new to the basketball thing, you can't compare BT records because of the unbalanced schedule. MSU has had the #1 most difficult BT schedule the last two seasons playing all the big boys twice. You need to compare the entire season and we all know MSU plays all the big boys while UM schedules hs teams. Despite that, MSU continues to rack up more Final Fours than any other team in the past 10 years and UM can't even make the field of 64. Don't go there, I'll rip ya to shreds.

Please.. msu football is the absolute worst football team in the big10 for the last 2.5 years and running. u-m basketball has never been that bad. Who cares if you were in the top 25, before finishing 4-8 or 5-7. Besides it is harder to get into the NIT than it is the Motor City Bowl, so who fucking cares about those "post season appearances". michigan bball has been a mediocre bball team the last few years and msu fball has sucked.

Please.. msu football is the absolute worst football team in the big10 for the last 2.5 years and running. u-m basketball has never been that bad. Who cares if you were in the top 25, before finishing 4-8 or 5-7. Besides it is harder to get into the NIT than it is the Motor City Bowl, so who fucking cares about those "post season appearances". michigan bball has been a mediocre bball team the last few years and msu fball has sucked.

3-16 over the last 19. Fucking Boffo. No exsuses. They sucked.

Please.. msu football is the absolute worst football team in the big10 for the last 2.5 years and running. u-m basketball has never been that bad. Who cares if you were in the top 25, before finishing 4-8 or 5-7. Besides it is harder to get into the NIT than it is the Motor City Bowl, so who fucking cares about those "post season appearances". michigan bball has been a mediocre bball team the last few years and msu fball has sucked.

Let's do the math since you obviously don't have a clue about basketball. 65 teams get into the tourney. The NIT has like 20 teams invited. Therefore, you have to be in the (app.) top 85 to get into the NIT. Check the number of bowls. There aren't over 40 homeboy.

UM has never been that bad? Do you watch them at all? Did you forget about them losing by 52 to MSU? Michigan has been TERRIBLE for years. You don't sound like you keep up with them much. When you don't sniff the postseason (no, NIT doesn't count. That would be like semi-bowl games) for a decade, you are pathetic.

Say what you want, MSU is in a better situation right now overall. I mean, what do you have to hope for this year? NC is out of the question. Basically holding out hope for a BT title in fball and then its shit for the rest of the year.

Here are some numbers for ya X, since you don't think UM has been that bad in basketball. I thought staying in this decade was fair enough. So I just went back to 2000. Besides, prior to that UM forfeited like 5 years worth of games so technically they finished last for like 5 years, but whatever.

Since 2000, Michigan Basketball has recorded these wonderful BT records:
4-12
5-11
4-12
6-10

That's 4 years of the last 7. So the other years must have been terrific right? Yeah, .500 was a great year for them.

BTW, in 2000 Michigan State finished #5 in the country in football and fell one game shy of the BT title.

so msu fball has gone 4-15 the last 2.5 years, which is worse than any record u-m basketball has had in any single season. Thanks for proving my point for me. msu fball has been worse over the last 2.5 years than u-m basketball's worst single season even when they were on probation. You have to acknowledge that msu is the worst team in the big10 over the last 2.5 years to realize that msu football is currently nothing to brag about. There have actually been 8 seasons since 2000. so i guess, they u-m basketball has been under .500 for 4 of 8 seasons. However, in the last 5 years, u-m bball has been under .500 once. Once again, u-m basketball is bad, but msu fball is the worst team in the league over the last 2.5 years. Even when you cherry pick the number of years, your stats don't prove anything, because msu's only ranking was for the 1999 team. if msu goes 4-4 this year (which is not likely) your football team will only tie michigan's .500 or better in 4 of the last 8 seasons. all your posts about msu fball dominating um bball are just your own fantasy. Neither is very good, but msu fball has been much worse in the recent past. if michigan bball is TERRIBLE, msu fball is WORSE THAN TERRIBLE.

If you are going to count the number of teams, there are 336 d1 bball teams compared to 121 d1a football teams. There are currently 32 bowl games (64 teams) for those 121. So 53% of d1a teams go to bowls. The postseason NIT has 32 teams + 65 for NCAA = 97 or 29%. So, it does appear more difficult to make the NIT than make a bowl. hell, iowa went to a bowl game last year despite winning just 25% of its conference games. msu will probably go to a bowl game this year if they go 2-6 in conference. do you think a 4-12 big 10 basketball team would have made even the NIT? In contrast michigan bball was 21-12 and 9-9, but didn't make the tourney.

Historically, msu fball has been ranked at the end of the season 1 time since 1990 when they finished 7 (not 5) in both polls in 1999. saban jumped ship ASAP even before the bowl game that year and they haven't done anything since.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/bigten/michigan_state/in_the_polls.php

Honestly, arguing with you is just a waste of time. msu fball has a good offense this year and are fun to watch. maybe dantonio will turn around the program. good luck with the rest of the season.

How many times do I have to explain it to you? There is an unbalanced schedule in BT bball and you play each team twice. Therefore, when Michigan had 4 wins for example, they actually defeated 2 absolutely terrible teams twice. You're able to rack up double wins because you face a team twice, while you might only face a great team once. Do you get it yet?

You dont play all the teams in the Big Ten each season in football either. Thus you could miss out on some of the better teams depending on the rotation. You missed out on Wisky and Iowa the 2 previous seasons before this (I could be wrong when I looked).

Do you get that?

Rushing Statistics
NAME CAR YDS YPC LONG TD
1. Mike Hart, Michigan 200 1078 5.4 61 12
2. Eugene Jarvis, Kent St 160 935 5.8 42 8
3. Javon Ringer, Mich St 132 932 7.1 80 6
4. Matt Forte, Tulane 151 919 6.1 44 9
5. Kevin Smith, C Florida 164 915 5.6 80 11
6. Justin Anderson, N Illinois 173 868 5.0 52 5
7. Tashard Choice, Ga Tech 158 840 5.3 73 6
8. Rashard Mendenhall, Illinois 129 839 6.5 50 10
9. P.J. Hill, Wisconsin 179 825 4.6 40 11
10. Darren McFadden, Arkansas 147 822 5.6 56 7
11. Ray Rice, Rutgers 165 818 5.0 41 13
12. Jalen Parmele, Toledo 157 791 5.0 51 7
13. Deonte Jackson, Idaho 140 789 5.6 32 4
14. Yvenson Bernard, Oregon St 175 752 4.3 54 9
15. Anthony Alridge, Houston 117 748 6.4 60 7
16. Michael Desormeaux, La Lafayette 128 738 5.8 73 4
17. Justin Forsett, California 136 735 5.4 45 10
Calvin Dawson, ULMONROE 136 735 5.4 58 3
19. Marcus Thomas, UTEP 138 708 5.1 38 12
20. BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Ole Miss 144 701 4.9 57 2
21. Marlon Lucky, Nebraska 138 698 5.1 41 6

On Omaha Rdaio station Z-92 today the subject of Michigan football came up. They praised our Mighty Wolverines, saying how commendable it is that they didn't (and I quote) "Fold up their tents and pack it in for the season". "They didn't give up" said another, and also this: "Taht is why Michael Hart deserves alot of attention for the Heisman. He is a great, great running back" Another memeber of this mornings "Black Roundtable" said Hart is a "Great leader. He has put that team on his back, and if he keeps putting up those kind of numbers, should win the Heisman if Michigan wins the Big 10".
Wow. For a tenuously connected guy like myself, that was sure a boost. I just may pass that test I have this afternoon in Speech 2100. I didn;t study, but if bukdow's theory is correct, I can gleen enough energy from the praise of Michael Hart to at least get a B!
I think all of us Michigan Fans should be proud. If they talk about your greatness in Omaha, it's gotta be real.

Curiously, they didn't go on and on and whine like little bitches about how much Michael Hart talks.

Did they mention Ringer at all? I want to give fair space to those who love Ringer as much as some of us love Hart.

Uh, no, come to think of it. No mention of Ringer, and no mention of MSU other than indirectly. They said Ohio State and Michigan will probably play for the Big Ten title in November, if Michael Hart isn't badly injured, and UM wins out.

Frankly, considering the fact that Ringer plays in a two back system, I find his numbers more impressive. If you add in Ringer`s receiving production, I think it becomes fairly clear that Ringer is the better overall back.

Don't we already have this thread?

See me and Zip tried to give some love to Ringer by asking and talking about him and Budkow had to come here and start the whole Hart vs. Ringer thing again.

On Omaha Rdaio station Z-92 today the subject of Michigan football came up. They praised our Mighty Wolverines, saying how commendable it is that they didn't (and I quote) "Fold up their tents and pack it in for the season". "They didn't give up" said another, and also this: "Taht is why Michael Hart deserves alot of attention for the Heisman. He is a great, great running back" Another memeber of this mornings "Black Roundtable" said Hart is a "Great leader. He has put that team on his back, and if he keeps putting up those kind of numbers, should win the Heisman if Michigan wins the Big 10".
Wow. For a tenuously connected guy like myself, that was sure a boost. I just may pass that test I have this afternoon in Speech 2100. I didn;t study, but if bukdow's theory is correct, I can gleen enough energy from the praise of Michael Hart to at least get a B!
I think all of us Michigan Fans should be proud. If they talk about your greatness in Omaha, it's gotta be real.

Curiously, they didn't go on and on and whine like little bitches about how much Michael Hart talks.
Artemis, you call this giving some love to Ringer?

Zip posted something, which you have correctly quoted.

I asked if there was any mention of Ringer to give equal love since you were kind enough to bold Hart and Ringers numbers.

It is not my fault nor is it Zip's fault they did not mention Ringer. I was trying to get information about a player from MSU as a UM fan. I am sorry the information you wanted was not in their. All I can do is try.

Zip posted something, which you have correctly quoted.

I asked if there was any mention of Ringer to give equal love since you were kind enough to bold Hart and Ringers numbers.

It is not my fault nor is it Zip's fault they did not mention Ringer. I was trying to get information about a player from MSU as a UM fan. I am sorry the information you wanted was not in their. All I can do is try.
And in response to Zippy`s lauding of Hart, I posted (using objective evidence) why Ringer is a better overall back. Hart gets more attention because he plays for UM, but statistically (and in reality), rushes and receptions, Ringer is the better back.

Frankly, considering the fact that Ringer plays in a two back system, I find his numbers more impressive. If you add in Ringer`s receiving production, I think it becomes fairly clear that Ringer is the better overall back.

I think that on the surface, that's a pretty sound argument. Those 12 yards a game Caulkrick gets probably take away so much of the potential production that would otherwise go to Ringer.

Sorry, buk. Hart has more yards and more TD's. Defenses know he is getting the ball. He makes much yardage after contact.
Hart's better, your objectivity nothwithstanding.

I think that on the surface, that's a pretty sound argument. Those 12 yards a game Caulkrick gets probably take away so much of the potential production that would otherwise go to Ringer.
Last game Caulcrick rushed for 94 yards. In the first game of the season, Caulcrick was the leading rusher with around 100 yards. I believe that was the case for the first few games, actually. So, Zippy, once again, your subjective love for blue and yellow clad boys just doesn`t pan out. Big surprise.

Sorry, buk. Hart has more yards and more TD's. Defenses know he is getting the ball. He makes much yardage after contact.
Hart's better, your objectivity nothwithstanding.
Hart has 68 more carries and 146 more yards. All Ringer would have to do is average better than 2.15 yards per carry to surpass Hart. Very, very doable. Once again, if Ringer did not play in a two back system, he would easily surpass Hart in yardage and touchdowns. I believe Caulcrick has at least 7 TDs.

And, again, Ringer is a damn good receiver out of the backfield. Ringer is just all around much better than Hart. I know that breaks your hart, but it is just the facts.

http://www.boredatworkforum.com/bored_man.gif

How are those rush defenses that Ringer has faced?

How are those rush defenses that Ringer has faced?

The bestest in the whole wide world!

http://www.boredatworkforum.com/bored_man.gif
Giving up, Zippy? Good for you. Its about time you started to realize that facts trump unhealthy love for a bunch of boys clad in blue and yellow.

How are those rush defenses that Ringer has faced?
Not much different than the ones Hart has faced.

the defenses are extremley focused in trying to win the game.

Pat Caputo was just talking about this last night. He's a Ringer fan.

O.

Phil Steele has his halfway All Big Ten out and Hart is 1st team and Ringer is 2nd team.

Ringer and Hart are both great backs.

If I am trying to get someone for 20 carries a game - I want Ringer, he is more explosive, and you have somebody that could fill in for short situations if he is only getting 20 carries a game.

If I want someone for 30+ carries I'd choose Hart(or PJ Hill, but probably Hart), as that's his game.

I wouldn't trade MSU's backs for UM's this year, no way no how. But 1 to 1, then I wouldn't be as committed.

And comparing the defenses faced - really?
App St. vs. UAB - Adv. UAB
Oregon vs. Pitt - Adv. Oregon
ND - both
NW - both
Eastern vs. BG - who cares, shit v. shit
PSU vs. Wiscy - wash
Purdue vs. Indy - wash

So pretty much even IMO. Neither of us have dealt with exceptional D's or anything.

DSC:

Nice summation, I probably couldn't really disagree with that. Ringer is more explosive, that's plain for all to see.
However, Penn State's defense is about 76 times better than Wisconsin's. If you watched the game between PSU and Wiscy, you saw two very comparable offenses, but PSU rang up 38 on the Badgers and held them to seven. No way does Wisconsin match up defensively with PSU.

PSU has a much better defense than Wisky.

I never said Ringer was not a very good back. I just stated he is not better than Hart whether it be 20 carries or 40 carries.

I will say that I would rather have Ringer in a spread offense over Hart against most teams. If the other team has a great defense I would rather have Hart though.

PSU has a much better defense than Wisky.

I never said Ringer was not a very good back. I just stated he is not better than Hart whether it be 20 carries or 40 carries.

I will say that I would rather have Ringer in a spread offense over Hart against most teams. If the other team has a great defense I would rather have Hart though.

Have you noticed how Ringer is better now that he is out of the spread? And has more total yards than Hart in way less touches. I don't see how you can say that Hart is clearly better. Unless you are suggesting that MSU's injury prone line is WAY better than UM's, in which case we have an even bigger disagreement.

And I guess I was basing a bit too much on reputation rather than performance with Wiscy.

If you read Hip's column from the front page (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page=Hip101907) he is lauding MSU's NFL caliber offensive line.

Ringer's ties to MSU were tenuous, at best. He decided on MSU cuz their basketball team was winning.

If you read Hip's column from the front page (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page=Hip101907) he is lauding MSU's NFL caliber offensive line.

Last week was the 1st time the top 7-8 have been together since the 1st game in '06. With that they are without Jason Diehl, done for the year, Slocums former prep school teammate. They need to play together "some." They are indeed NFL size.

If you read Hip's column from the front page (http://www.wtfdetroit.com/index.php?page=Hip101907) he is lauding MSU's NFL caliber offensive line.

NFL size /= NFL caliber.

And through most of this year we've had bigtime line injuries, former walkon, and 3rd or worse on the depth chart going into the season Mike Bacon has a couple starts. I'd trade MSU's line for UM's, and pick up Long, Schilling, and all those folks.

tony kornheiser just called mike hart "THE" best player in the country.

not that he's the end all be all, but i do believe even the most ardent sparty (gone extinct?) would call him objective.

diddy, don't you know that Kornheiser is the leader of the vast Anti Spartan Conspiracy (vASC) that has taken over the world?
The mere mention of Michigan is his forte. It is the que for all the secret vASC agents scattered throughout the country to mobilize.

Once mobilized, they head out into the world to infiltrate every known organization.
For fear of death, that is all I can tell you at this point.

Kornheiser is extremely focused on doing a good job, though.

His leadership in the vASC is, as of this writing, NOT tenuous.

tony kornheiser just called mike hart "THE" best player in the country.

not that he's the end all be all, but i do believe even the most ardent sparty (gone extinct?) would call him objective.

He may be correct. He's not the best prospect, since his game may not translate well to the NFL...but I certainly haven't seen a better player this year. I also haven't seen too many non-big ten games either, so I'm just going by what I've seen.

Mike Hart is up there realll high, but right now the nod has to go to Dennis Dixon.

Mike Hart is up there realll high, but right now the nod has to go to Dennis Dixon.

Didn't see that game, I was in Mexico.

Did you lose a kidney while there?

Did you lose a kidney while there?

No, but I had the shits for a week and never drank their water.

Mike Hart

BTW Ringer lost his chance to be the best running back when he fumbled against Iowa. The next time that Hart does that it will be the first in over 1000 carries.

Mike Hart


confirmed...

There's no question it's Mike Hart, and the reasons are simple:

You know where, when, why, and how he's going to get the ball. You KNOW where he is going to run. The UM offensive line is mediocre at best. Henne and the receivers do not pose much of a threat. UM does very little play action. They do not use anything to disguise the run, and do not make much use of reverses or anything to throw off the pursuit. UM does not use counter traps, cutbacks, or anything that might take advantage of Harts shiftiness and ability to make people miss.
Hart gets 46,000 carries a game. He is hurt because of over use, and probably tired as hell by game four.

And yet, he rages on, getting this done by himself. He is more often than not hit at or near the line of scrimmage, and gets much of his yardage after contact.

He is simply great. Hip Dig It wonders how Ringer would do behind UM's Oline,; I wonder what Hart would do with a coaching staff that had imagination, that knew how to coach and get the most out of the talent at hand, and one that had more than four plays in it's offense.

ALSO: NO FUMBLES, great blocker, and underused as a receiver.

....nice to see you Cult Members have your materials at the ready. Do they make little fact filled refrigerator magnets for the members? Impressive. Just imagine a back with speed, strength and a better receiver working with a team that doesn't resemble a chinese fire drill. Put that imagination to the task. I'll take Ringer thanks.

It does suck that all Michigan fans are eating the Hart cornbread. Ringer is by far the superior back.

Jehuu Caulcrick.

It does suck that all Michigan fans are eating the Hart cornbread. Ringer is by far the superior back.


MSU still hasn't beaten anybody yet...

MSU still hasn't beaten anybody yet...

theyve morally beaten every one they play against, dont know what your talking about.

for instance, that moral victory against UM was amongst the biggest in school history, i'd think.

Lok at what Hart did. 4800 yards and the biggest 10 of them might be the pick up of the Mallett fumble and the presence of mind to run the ball, evade a tackler, and get a first down.

This little fucker deserves the Heismann Trophy right fucking now. If George Bush really wanted to win this war on terrooroorooororrrrr, he'd get Hart to join the Marines NOW.

Since Crable plays as a defensive lineman at times, the fact that he caught ringer from behind should disqualify ringer from best running back in the big 10consideration. WHo is left that has never been caught from behind?

Great point. In fact, it is Crable who almost made the tackle initially, and Ringer got away from him. So Ringer was caught by a guy who took himself out of the play.

Crable is touted for his speed. His bony ass a DL? Sure, spin it. Big "diff" between Crable and Peku the Hairbag DT who caught Hurt last year from behind. Whatever...

I'm actually starting to think that Beanie Wells might be on top...

me too.

I'm actually starting to think that Beanie Wells might be on top...

I've been waiting for him to get any recognition at all.:cogent:

Pretty legit option. Lethal blend of size, speed, cutting ability and hands.

BIG TEN RB RANKINGS...OFFICIAL

1. Mike Hart, Mich
2. Chris Wells, OSU
3. PJ Hill, Wisc
4. Amir Pinnix, Minn
5. Carlos Brown, Mich
6. Brandon Minor, Mich
7. Korey Sheets, Pur
8. Tyrell Suton, NW
9. Lamar Smith, Wisc
10. Rashard Mendenhall, Ill
11. Marcus Thigpen, Ind
12. Omar Conteh, NW
13. Evan Royster, PSU
14. Rodney Kinlaw, PSU
15. Albert Young, Iowa
16. Maurice Wells, OSU
17. AJ Jimmerson, MSU
18. Jehuu Caulcrick, MSU
19. Javon Ringer, MSU

Hart ran for 118 yards with one leg in 1 quarter pretty much.

MSU fans should be thankful Hart was hurt or he would have thrown another 200 yard effort on their sorry asses.

Beanie is a good back, but not better than Mike Hart.

Outside contain needs to stay home on Wells, imo.

Beanie can rake against bad football teams.

Think Mike Hart is giving the Sparties some material they can hang on the wall next to The Clock for next year's game?

I know Hart takes alot of shit, and anyone who watched that game saw an awful lot of yappage from the Sparties during it, but Hart has to realize that he won't be playing next year, and maybe you thank your lucky stars that Dantonio's team just couldn;t finish, and you move on by saying "Wow, they played GREAT! We got lucky" Next question?

They dont need any more material.

A team that spent a certain amount of time each week game planning for UM really doesnt need any more material.

I also think that if you had heard his whole comment...he made a valid point in stating that MSU believes they are the little brother and it has been mentioned by players and coaches for years with regards to this.

I'm all for yakking it up on the field and having some fun. But keep it out of the papers.

I go Hart, Beanie, then P.J. too.

Sucks that Hart has been dinged up, otherwise he'd be the #1 candidate for the Heisman, IMO. I guess his durability is his achilles heel along with his lack of breakaway speed. But honestly, there's no other back I'd rather have in the country.

The comments did seem a little "unMichiganlike", but I was a little pissed off about the "moment of silence" comment by Dantonio, the "It felt like we won 2 games today" comment by Jehuu, and the whole coundown clock crap. Due to those reasons, I loved the Hart comments.

moment of silence comments....?

I can't even find Harts comments that might piss off sparty

Here's the ONE comment that pisses of Sparty:

"I'm going to Michigan"

Hart said something like..."it was fun, you know like when you are beating your little brother" Or something like that.

It won't mean shit next year.

MLive has the audio

Dennis Dixon would be my #1 candidate regardless of what Hart has done.

Dennis Dixon best player I have seen this year.

Dennis Dixon would be my #1 candidate regardless of what Hart has done.

Dennis Dixon best player I have seen this year.


Dennis Dixon doesn't play in the Big Ten

Skip Bayless picks Boeckman for Heisman because MSU and Wisconsin's defenses are better than the Pac 10 defenses Dixon has seen...

Skip Bayless picks Boeckman for Heisman because MSU and Wisconsin's defenses are better than the Pac 10 defenses Dixon has seen...


MSU's defense isn't that good. Macomb Dakota could put up 20+ on them...

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Art

NCAA 'rum was so money.