LOL

Belichick really respects his former underlings, doesn't he?


Sources: Camera confiscated after claims of Pats spying on Jets

By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com

Updated: September 10, 2007, 4:17 PM ET

Did Patriots Cheat in Win Over Jets?

NFL security confiscated a video camera and its tape from a New England Patriots employee on the team's sideline during Sunday's game against the Jets in a suspected spying incident, sources said.

The camera and its tape were placed in a sealed box and forwarded to the league office for investigation, the sources said.

"We don't have any comment," an NFL spokesman said Monday.

The Patriots' cameraman was suspected of aiming his camera at the Jets' defensive coaches who were sending signals to their unit on the field, the sources said. The league also is investigating some radio frequency issues that occurred during the game.

The league's competition committee could conduct a conference call about the incident, which violates NFL policy, and ultimately recommend a penalty that could cost the Patriots a future draft pick or picks if it verifies that the team was spying on the Jets.

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.

In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

A Jets official declined comment Monday, directing an inquiry to the league office. The Patriots also did not have immediate comment.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/apache2-default/image.php?u=6664&dateline=1189661571

RE: NE SpyCam

Big deal? Not a big deal? I keep switching. Whats the dif between recording and writting down the signals? Its just an advance in technology. Pen and paper out, camcorder in.

Agreed, but what I don't understand is, if they were "never going to use them during the current game", why would they risk something in Green Bay? Why in Detroit? It's not like they were going to face those teams again anytime soon.

I think that Belichick cheated, and obviously that's wrong. I don't really think that it's too big of a deal, unless they were radioing in the plays to Brady.

However, the person I think that is getting a free pass here is Mangini. Isn't he a little slimy for reporting it? And the reason I say that is this:

He used to work for Belichick. He was nothing but a towel boy or something when he was under him with the Browns. But he worked his way up really quickly and became a head coach 10 years later. Why - Bill Belichick. He owes him a lot. Belichick was/is an ass to him, but there's no doubt that Mangini is where he is because of BB. Now because he was under Belichick, that means he either a) cheated as well, or b) knew what was going on. So now he reports it when it can benefit him.

Honestly this situation just reeks. The Pats are now known as cheaters, and Mangini is a little slimey.

I think that Belichick cheated, and obviously that's wrong. I don't really think that it's too big of a deal, unless they were radioing in the plays to Brady.

However, the person I think that is getting a free pass here is Mangini. Isn't he a little slimy for reporting it? And the reason I say that is this:

He used to work for Belichick. He was nothing but a towel boy or something when he was under him with the Browns. But he worked his way up really quickly and became a head coach 10 years later. Why - Bill Belichick. He owes him a lot. Belichick was/is an ass to him, but there's no doubt that Mangini is where he is because of BB. Now because he was under Belichick, that means he either a) cheated as well, or b) knew what was going on. So now he reports it when it can benefit him.

Honestly this situation just reeks. The Pats are now known as cheaters, and Mangini is a little slimey.

I hate to go all Bill Lumberg on you Mo, but I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you about Mangini being in the wrong.

Even removing the fact that he and Billy Sweatshirt DESPISE each other, I think he made the right call when he informed the NFL of what was going on.

Do you think he should be more loyal to Belichick than to his current employer, or more importantly, his players?

How could he knowingly allow an opponent to take an advantage of (aka cheat) the guys that he is going into battle with? Doing nothing really wasn't an option for him IMO, that would almost be akin to throwing games.

You don't find that at all sketchy? I think you're right: Mangini is out there to win games. But this has been going on for a while. And for him to be the one to come out with it is what irks me. He could have told another team, especially one last year so the Jets wouldn't be at the disadvantage, but he didn't.

The reason Mangini is a head coach is because of Belichick. He wouldn't have been a head coach for another 10-20 years if it wasn't for him. You don't rise from a ball-boy to a head coach in 10 years... it just doesn't happen without a lot of help.

The fact that Mangini was on the Patriots staff means he was doing this as well. And he comes out with this now. If he was really a great person, he would have left the organization when he knew they were doing it. But instead he used it to his advantage then, and again to his advantage now. He rode the Sweatshirt's coattails to stardome, and then ratted him out.

I in no way am saying that BB didn't get what he deserved. He cheated, and this puts a mark on his coaching. I'm just saying that Mangini needs a little bit of critisism to for being such a weenie and a worm.

I don't know enough about Mangini's career to know if he would have been considered for a head coaching job if he was an assistant for the Falcons or the Bucs or any other team, but logic would dictate that you are right, that he got the Jets job (against Belichick's wishes, btw) due to the recent success that the Patriots had.

That said, I think the scenario where a young rising star assistant quits his primo job because he doesn't agree with everything that his Yoda does is a bit too much fantasy for me.

He may have hated the fact that Belichick does this, but I certainly don't think that the fact that he didn't quit over it should be the measure by which his character is judged. My opinion, I respect yours, though.

The thing that pisses me off the most about it is that once again Boston sports fans have yet another opportunity to be in the spotlight of sports debates. Whether perpetual winners or losers we seem to have to put up with the overbearing, pretentious, pompous, holier-than-thou Boston sports opinion machine no matter what.

(And if I sound just a bit too bitter about this, well...yeah. I spent four years being the only Detroit fan and one of three midwestern sports fans in a New England college. The shit I got my freshman year alone for asking for "pop" instead of "soda" and being part of an evil axis city that could actually root for Bill Lambeer makes me...well, let's just leave it at having a slight grudge against New England/Boston sports fans.)

Where do you go?

And Boston fans are a joke. Everything is a curse, disgrace, or whatever else.

The one thing I wonder, and am too lazy to research... is if NE has any kind of significant difference of scoring or yardage in the second half vs the first. Yes it is cheating, but that would show if it really had an impact.

Not that anyone else does this kind of thing. Nooooooooooooo

The one thing I wonder, and am too lazy to research... is if NE has any kind of significant difference of scoring or yardage in the second half vs the first. Yes it is cheating, but that would show if it really had an impact.

I was thinking it would more be first match-up of the season to the next.

I was thinking it would more be first match-up of the season to the next.

True except then every team after game one would have an advantage just from stock game film. Id hope teams switch it up a few times a year.

Well it was the actual stealing of signs to the players for plays and formations, from what I understand.

All that said, I think the competitive advantage is minimal, although that shouldn't play into the degree on the suspension in my opinion. Cheating is cheating, and the Pats are clearly guilty of it.

Where do you go?

And Boston fans are a joke. Everything is a curse, disgrace, or whatever else.

Middlebury College in Vermont.

Mmmm maple syrup and marble.

Not that anyone else does this kind of thing. Nooooooooooooo

Agreed. It's like Watergate and Nixon, right? The only difference between Nixon and other Administrations is that HE got caught, and they didn't.

It's funny how, during halftime, Costas asked "High as a Kite" Collinsworth if it's widespread. His answer?... sure, I suppose others do it.

You've gotta be kidding me!!! EVERYBODY DOES IT!!!!! And everybody knows everybody does it. I know this because those in and around the game refuse to offer a straight answer when posed that very question. It's always some fluff answer like, "Well, every team desires a competitive edge", or "It really shouldn't make that much of a difference".

When you play a team twice each year, intel derived from the first encounter can make the difference of several keys plays or stops. Doesn't sound like much, but consider this: 4th quarter. 1:12 left. Down by 2, and you need to get to the 37 to access field goal range. If one stolen signal can add 10 yards to your final drive, that means you wind up on the 35 rather than the 45 on 4th down. And that 10 yard difference might BE the difference between home field advantage or not, or even making the playoffs or not. And that equals $$$$$$... or not.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if teams swap video during the season. If the Bears play the Rams, and the 49ers play the Packers, then what's stopping the Bears and 49ers from swapping video? Nothing, really. The video rule went into effect this year, I believe. Hmph. I suppose, then, that handheld camcorders have come down in price to the point where NFL teams can now afford them, and thus become a sign-stealing threat.

Thought for the day: What if Cam Cameron got caught using a camcorder?

With all these cheating scandals over the last few months I've had this internal debate on whether the issues are really black and white or with today's internet and 24 hour news and 1,000,000,000,000 opinions out there things that are not so bad are getting blown way out of proportion.

I mean cheating is cheating, it's wrong. But it seems that cheating we once took as anecdotal (if we ever did) and with a grain of salt is getting bunched up with much more serious problems.

For example the nail file scuff ball incident years ago with Joe Niekro, was looked at almost as funny. It was, IMO, something that everyone knew a lot of pitchers did but he got caught and looked rather stupid trying to hide it. The same goes with corked bats or other little in-game cheating incidents in sports.

Are there levels of cheating where some, while definitely deserving punishment, shouldn't be seen as the end of the sports world as we know it?

On si.com Dr. Z basically compares the sentencing of the Patriots with steroid use. Is that a fair comparison? Somehow I find steroid use a darker shade of gray (or black itself really) because of the overall damage it does, to the game, to the opponents and especially to the players; plus the message it sends to kids that destroying your body for a competitive advantage is OK.

I honestly don't know the answer to this, but again, I wonder if there was a time that an incident like the Patriots would have been punished for sure, but seen by the public in a different light.

I think there was a time when something like this would have been handled by the league and then swept under the rug.

my sense is that people were sick of the rich guy being a bad tipper. meaning everyone is probably guilty of the same crime to different degrees, but people got sick of belicheck pushing the envelope, especially because he's got the most talent, and even more especially because he's a prick that makes sure to act like he's smarter than everyone else at all times.

Yeah they certainly looked like the lack of videotaping hurt them last night.