82-80 in their last 162 reg. season games dating back to last year (if my math is correct).

I started the year thinking it was championship or bust this year: (http://wtfdetroit.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8962) but that isn't seeming very likely right now.

A lot of people think that the fix lies in the return of Zumaya and Rogers.

I'm not so sure it's that easy.

Has anyone else noticed how many times the Tigers have struck out over the past two series? 35 against the Yankees (8.75 per gm) and 24 in two games vs. Cleveland (12 per gm).

In other words, it's not just the pitching.

They don't have to recapture the magic, they just have to go on a week long tear against NY and CLE.

Detroit is the worst team in baseball in the last 31 games (10-21). However, they also went through a similar stretch last year and turned out ok.

The good news is that we've been hit with injuries during this stretch, so you can be optimistic that we'll bounce back. The other good news is that the entire central division is sub .500 in that same stretch.

The bad news is that we don't know if Rogers will come back strong and also Guillen and Sheff will be battling injuries all year.

I think we'll be fine for making the playoffs. We are better than Cleveland IMO. I'm not sure we'll get by the Angels, Boston or NY though. not by playing like this. But we still have time to get rolling by then.

Inside the Tigers: Raburn in for Inge

by Danny KnoblerSunday August 19, 2007, 7:20 PM



Who's hot: Ryan Raburn played second base all week in place of Placido Polanco, and he went 8-for-23 (.348) with four doubles. That's one reason that manager Jim Leyland said Raburn will play third base in place of Brandon Inge on Tuesday night. (The other reason, of course, is that Inge was 5-for-22 with 12 strikeouts this week, and is 11-for-51 with 26 strikeouts and no home runs this month.) Raburn is hitting .349 since joining the Tigers just before the All-Star break. "He's done a good job,'' Leyland said. "And when they've made a mistake, he's hit it.''
Who's not: Mike Rabelo had three of the Tigers' nine hits Sunday, and he drove in one of the three runs. But there's another part to catching, and that part isn't going well for the rookie. The Tigers have now lost eight of the last 10 games Rabelo has started, and in those 10 games the pitchers have combined for a 7.31 ERA.

Nice new contract = sub par play. We sure this isn't the NBA?

I think Leyland may have said it best when he said the city of Detroit has been a little too spoiled.

I hate to say it, but I think the Tigers are done.

We can't rely on Bonderman or Verlander anymore, and who wants to count on Rogers or Nate?

It's not good when your fate rests on two starters that could easily be in AA right now.

Oh, and Sheff's shoulder is fucked up again.

I won't hesitate to jump back on if things change, of course, but as of this morning, I think the Tribe wins the Central and the either the Yankees or the Mariners (probably NY) wins the WC.

Disappointing, to say the least.

One good year out of 20 = too spoiled?

:dismissed:

Damnit, I have no response to the dismissal.

I pretty much agree with Glenn though.

Where's that Jeff Daniels song when you need it?

I'm sure that this will piss some people off but I think that the Tigers front office need to do something drastic. I say FIRE LEYLAND!!

WHY?? He has lost this team. The pitching is gone despite the talent being there (and we know that it is). Leyland controls the pitching and hitting coaches so it falls on him. Monroe sucked for too long and was given way too many chances. The pitching staff started to fall apart with the relievers and now the whole staff is a mess. I don't buy into injuries being the problem as we still have the talent to win. This team has been awful in the clutch and it all sems to come down to coaching. Since Leyland seems to be ignoring that fact and calling us fans "spoiled" after one good year in the last 15+, I think that it might be time. We cry harder about Flip Saunders needing to get fired but at least he got us to the playoffs every year. Right now it loks like Leyland won't even do that.

I'm sure that this will piss some people off but I think that the Tigers front office need to do something drastic. I say FIRE LEYLAND!!

WHY?? He has lost this team. The pitching is gone despite the talent being there (and we know that it is). Leyland controls the pitching and hitting coaches so it falls on him. Monroe sucked for too long and was given way too many chances. The pitching staff started to fall apart with the relievers and now the whole staff is a mess. I don't buy into injuries being the problem as we still have the talent to win. This team has been awful in the clutch and it all sems to come down to coaching. Since Leyland seems to be ignoring that fact and calling us fans "spoiled" after one good year in the last 15+, I think that it might be time. We cry harder about Flip Saunders needing to get fired but at least he got us to the playoffs every year. Right now it loks like Leyland won't even do that.

Um, Leyland has gotten us to the post season every year as well, and did it with a team that finished below .500 the year before (unlike Flip who was handed a recent championship team). And how is being 1.5 games back without an ace pitcher, your best 2 RP's and your best power hitter (not to mention all the guys who missed with the flu)...looking like we won't make the playoffs? We still have 3-4 series left, I think, with the Indians. We can't make up 1.5 games?

Leyland is 1 for 1 in getting us to the playoffs but this year is starting to look like we will miss out. We are playing like shit and have little chance of getting the wild card so we have to win the division. Can we beat out the Indians? Yes. Will we? I doubt it. I have sen us drop so many close games or seen so many players.positions mismanaged which is what makes me wonder about Leyland. This team has played badly for 2 months now and the coaching hasn't improved. What should I think?

Detroit loses another game in the 10th. We scored one run and had 19 lob. Robertson pitches awesome only to have Zumaya lose it for him. Do you still think that there isn't a coaching problem????

wow. i bet theres not 10 people in detroit that would agree with you, micknugget.

any major complaints about his managerial moves? i think he's pretty rock solid in that category. its not like its that tough to make the right baseball decisions as a manager.

if you blame the hitting and pitching coaches, therefore blaming leyland, i cant say your wrong. but coaches can only coach, the players still have to execute.

imo, baseball manager's biggest role is managing personalities, keeping the team focused, motivating, etc, which i believe leyland does perfectly.

fire millen? thats crazy talk.

i am getting down on our playoff chances. losing sheff is a killer, now and i guess long term too.

b-diddy, I can't help but think that management is the problem. The pitching staff has collapsed, both starters and relievers. We aren't talking just one or two players but everyone. Leyland is the manager and it's his job to fix the problem nad for two months now he hasn't. If he needs to hire a new pitching coach he should. What about the hitting? It's almost the same problem. I am also leary of the fact that most of our coaches are all ex-Pirates and buddies of Leyland so I wonder if they are any good. The entire team has collapsed so other than the manager who is to blame???????

I think we should still fire Saunders.

b-diddy, I can't help but think that management is the problem. The pitching staff has collapsed, both starters and relievers. We aren't talking just one or two players but everyone. Leyland is the manager and it's his job to fix the problem nad for two months now he hasn't. If he needs to hire a new pitching coach he should. What about the hitting? It's almost the same problem. I am also leary of the fact that most of our coaches are all ex-Pirates and buddies of Leyland so I wonder if they are any good. The entire team has collapsed so other than the manager who is to blame???????

Last time I checked we are still 2nd in the league in offense even with our slump. I chalk this whole skid up to starting pitching. Nate's game was the exception to the norm. Most of our losses can be attributed to our starters getting in an early hole. How many good starts have we gotten from our big 3 lately? None from Kenny (on the DL), can't remember one from Bonderman who is always shitty early on, and Verlander has been shaky too. Our bullpen has blown leads, but they've also been heavily taxed too. How many times can you count on those guys and not have them blow a game once and a while? Joel was just back off the DL and forced to go two innings, so I can't blame him there.

This isn't panic time IMO. If Kenny doesn't come back, Sheff can't get somewhat healthy, and Verlander/Bondo can't put some quality starts together...then panic.

This isn't panic time IMO. If Kenny doesn't come back, Sheff can't get somewhat healthy, and Verlander/Bondo can't put some quality starts together...then panic.

That stuff is kinda happening already.

im really worried about sheff. he's worth atleast 1 run a game. ATLEAST 1.

That stuff is kinda happening already.

What part is happening? Bondo gave up 7 in his last outing. He was 10-2 a month ago. Now he is 10-7. Verlander gave up 7 his last outing as well. His ERA is 6.75 in August, 4.50 in July.

Kenny is still out and so is Sheff. So I'm wondering which one is happening. Hopefully Verlander starts good tonight.

Not trying to be harsh, but those 4 players are a MAJOR part of this team and they are not producing (from injury or slumping).

I think that was Glenn's point. Those 4 are already struggling, hence "panic time".

if they win tonight and take 3/4 from the Yanks (which would include 2 consecutive wins for the first time in forever) it's certainly a good start to turning it around, assuming of course they take care of business and beat teams that they're supposed to beat (Royals on the road next, then at the A's).

I gotcha. I meant if they don't turn it around soon. I suppose you could already be tired of waiting for them to turn around. I just know that they struggled last year for about a month and still made the playoffs (without Sheff or Miller). I will say I am concerned about our starters, but not panicing at this point. If the Indians were playing well I would be.

Indians are 7-3 in their last 10.

.700 is pretty good.

I gotcha. I meant if they don't turn it around soon. I suppose you could already be tired of waiting for them to turn around. I just know that they struggled last year for about a month and still made the playoffs (without Sheff or Miller). I will say I am concerned about our starters, but not panicing at this point. If the Indians were playing well I would be.

Yeah, they did make the playoffs while struggling in the second half of the season, but I think they relied mostly on the weaknesses of the other divisions. Yankees won the East, while Boston struggled to stay healthy and ended up falling out of contention, and Seattle and Los Angeles weren't even close to where they are this year.

It is indeed Glenn. But if we go 3-1 vs the hottest team in baseball I think that will be impressive considering Kenny and Sheff are out as well.

A win tonight might be a huge confidence boost.

I like your optimism Chris, but the players have :dismissed: the "not playing with confidence" angle since their struggles began.

And in any case, I don't think restored confidence is going to make our starter's pitches less hittable, make Sheff's shoulder heal or keep Kenny from having another set back.

At least no one can say we haven't faced adversity this year.

I like your optimism Chris, but the players have :dismissed: the "not playing with confidence" angle since their struggles began.

And in any case, I don't think restored confidence is going to make our starter's pitches less hittable, make Sheff's shoulder heal or keep Kenny from having another set back.

Well, I think a great game for Verlander could do him wonders. We aren't hitting that bad IMO, but not great either. That could improve a lot. Inge is hitting like crap of course. The bad part is Casey and Polanco are slipping just a little farther down the batting average scale. They aren't quite slumping, but it's probably due to Sheff's bat not being in there to protect everyone a little more.

Knobler on MLive today:


...While the Tigers were scoring with ease, Verlander was baffling the Yankees batters with an array of fastballs and off-speed pitches.


Verlander said he and pitching coach Chuck Hernandez spent some time reviewing his last start prior to Monday, and the no-hitter he threw against Milwaukee on June 12. They noticed there were differences in his mechanics, which Verlander said he spent most of this week trying to correct.


"I worked hard this past week on that, getting back to where I was," Verlander said. "I really felt it had a good impact on my stuff."


But on this night, most of the postgame chatter centered around the balanced hitting attack by Detroit. Leyland was among those impressed, especially considering it came on the same day the team put Gary Sheffield (shoulder) on the 15-day disabled list. Still, Leyland was more pleased with Verlander's pitching.


"Everybody is going to talk about the offense, but I really liked the look in Verlander's eye," Leyland said. "I thought he went at a really good-hitting team, aggressively. He obviously had his velocity, used his pitches for the most part, very well. That to me was the bright spot of the evening. Obviously we swung the bats pretty well, but that (Verlander's pitching) to me was the bright spot."


I was listening to the pregame on the radio last night and they mentioned that Verlander and Hernadez noticed he was coming off the mound differently lately and they looked at the no hitter film and noticed him coming off the mound better. They were going to try that last night, apparently it helped.

Just wondering if there is still anyone here that thinks the Tigers are making the playoffs this year?

I still think there is a chance. It's getting worse every day though. I wouldn't bet any money on it at this point, that is for sure.

Apparently, Inge has been benched again and Rayburn will be playing 3B from now on.

Too late.

Just wondering if there is still anyone here that thinks the Tigers are making the playoffs this year?

I doubt it, but hey...back-to-back winning seasons (though there would be no playoffs this year) for the Tigers hasn't happened in a while.

By the way Glenn, I can't help but crack up every time I look at your avatar.

By the way Glenn, I can't help but crack up every time I look at your avatar.

That's a slap in the face of serious journalism.

That's a slap in the face of serious journalism.
Your avatar or his comment?

Can Leyland stop using Maybin over Granderson against lefties? Maybin went 0-5 and fielded poorly. Granderson can at least get a hit (in fact he did when brought in that game) and play stellar defense. Casey bats something like .280 against lefties and he sits him too.

I'm so sick of Leyland over analyzing this shit. It's the stretch run. Let your best players make plays, not sit on the bench and watch half the mud hens squad play because they are facing a certain pitcher.

Can Leyland stop using Maybin over Granderson against lefties? Maybin went 0-5 and fielded poorly. Granderson can at least get a hit (in fact he did when brought in that game) and play stellar defense. Casey bats something like .280 against lefties and he sits him too.

I'm so sick of Leyland over analyzing this shit. It's the stretch run. Let your best players make plays, not sit on the bench and watch half the mud hens squad play because they are facing a certain pitcher.

This is one of the many reasons that makes me think that we need a new manager.

Can the Tigers recapture the magic?

No.

:dismissed:

They'll get the magic back in '08...believe that